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S

Steve Flex

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Hi All,

Anybody have any experience regarding a Heatrae Amptec 12Kw electric flow boiler with control timer. I have been asked to install the above along with a plumber friend. I have checked the demand on the installation,which is ok, as it will be pulling a good 50A when going. It will be a 10m run from the consumer unit to the airing cupboard. I have done the calculations and it will need to be run in 10mm. The thing is the installation guide dosen't mention a contactor, which I think is necessary. I am thinking a 6A mcb to run the timer via contactor, at least a 50A mcb to run the boiler via contactor. I haven't had much experience with contactors, any ideas? Oh, yeah and there is only one space left in the consumer unit!

Cheers
 
E

electro

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hi
you dont as a rule need a contactor as the elements are stepping elements, so you dont pull 50amps straight off. good systems if you don't have a gas suppy. have you sorted out E10, you dont want to run these on a regular supply.

Regards
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hey.

With the large boilers and ground source heat pumps that I've installed, most of them have the contactors for various elements already installed within them.

The only thing I will say is to make sure that a 10mm is large enough for the job as a lot of the ones I've done I've had to use 16mm.

Indeed 12KW equates to 52A at 230V but with your short run it should be fine.

Hope this helps.:D
 
E

electro

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hi

I think steve installing a electric wet system not the ground source heat pumps? Which one is it steve as they are totally different systems..

Regards
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hey mate.

I agree they are totally different systems, I was just trying to make a point about the contactor issue and that the larger heating appliances have internal contactors so no need for an external one to be installed.
 
E

electro

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hi lenny

Sorry if I came across blunt, didn't want to confuse the issue, these electric heating systems are very new to the electric trade. You would be supprised how many of these systems are being installed wrong.
regards
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

No worries.

This new technology seems to be catching a lot of people out. I was on a job the other day with the commissioning engineer from Ice Energy who manufacture the ground source heat pumps.

It was his 4th job of the day and he hadn't been able to complete any so far as all the installation work by other contractors (plumbers mainly) wasn't correct so he couldn't commission.

Ice Energy even offer a free course to contractors on how to install all the pipework for these systems but from what he was saying they aren't interested in doing it.

It seems to me that these are becoming more and more common and will be another technology we all have to learn.

Sorry to have gone off thread a bit.

Regards:D
 
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hi All,

Anybody have any experience regarding a Heatrae Amptec 12Kw electric flow boiler with control timer. I have been asked to install the above along with a plumber friend. I have checked the demand on the installation,which is ok, as it will be pulling a good 50A when going. It will be a 10m run from the consumer unit to the airing cupboard. I have done the calculations and it will need to be run in 10mm. The thing is the installation guide dosen't mention a contactor, which I think is necessary. I am thinking a 6A mcb to run the timer via contactor, at least a 50A mcb to run the boiler via contactor. I haven't had much experience with contactors, any ideas? Oh, yeah and there is only one space left in the consumer unit!

Cheers
If you wanted to use your one way left in the board and use contactors you could simply fit a fcu next to contactor and come off the live side fusing down and then to your timer. BUT it is more likely that your boiler will just need a permenant supply and your controls will come from it for your timer,roomstat,cylinderstat,motorised valves,via a wiring centre. With such a high load I would be tempted to fit a new one way board with own tails,63amp mcb,16mm cable and as previous poster suggests definatly go for E10 supply. I would also be a little concerned if you also have an instant shower,you might need to take other precautions.
 
S

Steve Flex

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Many thanks for the replies lads. I will definitely consider the e10 opton for the system. It will be used for hot water only in the summer as the couple have an oil fired arga running the hot water and heating through the winter. I have managed to get hold of the technical spec if anybody has time to look at it. Looks as though it is a straight run from the cu to a double pole isolation switch and a fused spur to run the programmer, doesn't seem to mention a pump feed? Fairly straight forward i hope.
Any thoughts? Cheers

http://http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/amptec-c1200-12kw-electric-flow-boiler/Heatrae%20Amptec%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hey.

Cant seem to open the link.:confused::confused:
 
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Many thanks for the replies lads. I will definitely consider the e10 opton for the system. It will be used for hot water only in the summer as the couple have an oil fired arga running the hot water and heating through the winter. I have managed to get hold of the technical spec if anybody has time to look at it. Looks as though it is a straight run from the cu to a double pole isolation switch and a fused spur to run the programmer, doesn't seem to mention a pump feed? Fairly straight forward i hope.
Any thoughts? Cheers

http://http://www.plumbnation.co.uk...-boiler/Heatrae Amptec Installation Guide.pdf
A bit over the top at 700 quid a pop plus installation costs for to only be used as a water heater!!I thought they're for heating rads.
 
M

markspark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

have installed this system quite a few times, and if its done right, its brilliant! but as mentioned before , you cant have an instant shower as well as the c/heating due to loading issues.
as regard installation, its just the same as a gas c/heating system .
with thermostat and timeclock would definately go with the 16mm twin & earth supply fed from a new 3 way c/u . as you need a extra way for the central heating controls.

i agree that its expensive to use it as hot water boiler only!!!
 
S

Scott F

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Sorry to jump on this thread but as we are discussing boilers.Has anyone wired up any Nu Heat specifically "energy master thermal store cylinder with ground source heat pump ". I am just trying to get my head round it got the plans and relevant info .Has 12kw and recommends a 50 amp mcb but where is this fed to the heat pump itself and there are also fused spurs for the elements and pumps .(with me so far)and manifolds .would these be run separately on radials or all off the 50amp s will ring tech support in the week i am just trying to envisage the finished article so as not to miss anything out .Any help appreciated Scott
 
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

have installed this system quite a few times, and if its done right, its brilliant! but as mentioned before , you cant have an instant shower as well as the c/heating due to loading issues.
as regard installation, its just the same as a gas c/heating system .
with thermostat and timeclock would definately go with the 16mm twin & earth supply fed from a new 3 way c/u . as you need a extra way for the central heating controls.

i agree that its expensive to use it as hot water boiler only!!!
I had a look at that link there and it appears to me that all controls come from the boiler,so you shouldn't need another way.I'd go for 16mm split conc. as I don't like useing T&E over 6mm.I also see that the link talks about optional extra relays for use in conjunction with electric shower,not sure how that would be wired(probably done back at the board?)
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Sorry to jump on this thread but as we are discussing boilers.Has anyone wired up any Nu Heat specifically "energy master thermal store cylinder with ground source heat pump ". I am just trying to get my head round it got the plans and relevant info .Has 12kw and recommends a 50 amp mcb but where is this fed to the heat pump itself and there are also fused spurs for the elements and pumps .(with me so far)and manifolds .would these be run separately on radials or all off the 50amp s will ring tech support in the week i am just trying to envisage the finished article so as not to miss anything out .Any help appreciated Scott
Hi there.

All the ground source heat pumps I've done in the past for Nu-Heat, have been manufactured by a company called - Ice Energy.

I have to say they are really quite simple to install depending on wether its running central heating (radiators) and hot water or underfloor and hot water.

The biggest problem you're likely to have is providing the supply to the heat pump itself as it is usually a minimum of 63A for single phase i.e 16mm t+e plus 10mm earth run as a seperate sub-main and not from any other c.u.

Three phase is different, i.e easier to split the load over the three phases hence smaller rated supply but possibly in s.w.a.

The only control wiring that needs installing before you actually connect up is

1. outdoor sensor (should be on North facing aspect) - 3core cable I used arctic grade 3 core flex.
2. room sensor - 5 core cable I used standard 5 core flex usually in hallway away from heat sources (radiators) etc
3.You may (depending on system) have a 3 port zone valve to wire back to heat pump - 6 cores required, 2x3core flexes (Heat resistant)
4. Circulating pump - 3 core heat resistant flex

All other control wiring can be done before switch on as its in or next to the heat pump - flow sensors, thermostats etc. Best to check with heating engineer about positions of valves, pumps etc also type of system i.e rads/underfloor

If underfloor then you will have a seperate manifold which will need supply to activate zone controllers and possibly another circulating pump. This would be sepearte from heat pump though and could be run as a 16A radial from any c.u. It should come with it's own control box.

Hope this helps, If you need anything else just ask.

Cheers:D
 
S

Scott F

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Nice one Lenny .I may well be back to ask for more info_On my legend and plans it says low voltage screened do they mean heat resistant also its a new build thats why im eager to get it right .The mains is in one corner of garage heat pump in the other i was going to run heat pump off 50 amp cb as it only takes 43 amp its the 1140 ground source heatpump .Diolch Iechyd da
 
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Nice one Lenny .I may well be back to ask for more info_On my legend and plans it says low voltage screened do they mean heat resistant also its a new build thats why im eager to get it right .The mains is in one corner of garage heat pump in the other i was going to run heat pump off 50 amp cb as it only takes 43 amp its the 1140 ground source heatpump .Diolch Iechyd da
Its unlikely you would need screened cable in a simple domestic situation.The sensors probably are 8-12volt.You can get small bore screened cable about the size of phone wire,or you could use screened fire alarm cable(with the foil in it)If you REALLY wanted. Or you could just keep them away from your mains wiring.
 
G

Guest123

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Hey mate.

The sensors only need an alarm sized cable to work as they are only 12V, the problem I had was the distance between the sensors and the heat pump which is why I plumped for 1mm flex to cover the VD.

If you only have a short distance to run then screened alarm cable will do.

Cheers.:D
 
S

Scott F

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Re: 12Kw Electric Flow Boiler

Just posting to say Nu Heat came round and commissioned today , worked first time .

Don't you just love it when that happens.

So basically this is a thanks to Lenny and Mrloy for the input , nice one
 
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