Discuss Salon backwash unit in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Risteard

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I got a call late on Friday from a salon owner who is due to reopen in about a week's time. She had someone in doing work but then got rid of him as she didn't trust him. I suspect he was a handyman or something like that.

Anyhow, they have two chairs where they will have backwash units. She has two Triton 8.5kW electric showers to fit to these for washing fair. Personally I don't believe that an electric shower intended for domestic use is likely to be the best solution for this, but that's another issue.

Basically these shower units cannot be fixed to the wall behind the chairs as the hose is likely to create a tripping hazard. She wants them bolted to the chairs, however these have slightly curved surfaces as opposed to being flat. I was thinking perhaps a sheet of paxolin bolted to these to give a flat surface for the shower unit to sit on, however someone may have a better idea. (Or may have a better solution than these electric shower units!)

She seems to have in her head that this can be ready by Tuesday which is frankly ridiculous as deliveries don't tend to be quite so speedy at present. (Not sure why she thinks it needs to be ready for Tuesday when she doesn't open until the following Monday either.)
 
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Risteard

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Sounds like a ridiculous idea those sinks are normally plumbed from the hot water system.
Completely agree. She's adamant that this is the way that she's always done it. Not sure why the hot water's not an option but I'm guessing there is a reason, perceived or otherwise.
 

Andy78

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That's crazy. I'd refuse to do that I think. Backwash chairs are designed for plumbed hot water. Sometimes that means an abundance of boilers in large salons or even unvented cylinders with immersions, but an electric shower mounted on the chair is just daft.
 

mattg4321

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Better off with a small unvented cylinder under the sinks somewhere. Never heard of electric showers in salons before!!!
 

Risteard

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Never heard of electric showers in salons before!!!
Sadly it's not the first time that I've come across it, although that was on an inspection.

It's certainly an idea I'm not particularly keen on. There must be purpose-made solutions for this. An electric shower intended for domestic use certainly isn't being used for the intended purpose.
 

bigspark17

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I have fitted two 8.5kw shower in a salon for hair washing, these were mounted on the wall behind as there was no problem with trip hazard. 7 years on both shower working fine and are fit for purpose. Dont see why most replies find it so bizzare to wash your hair with an electric shower as many millions of homeowners do. I would agree if it was a large salon but if its just got 2/3 optatives then no problem.
 

littlespark

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Did the last guy leave because he wouldn't do what she wanted? He maybe had a point if she's asking to do it this way.

Yes. I dont see a problem with a shower, IF its fixed to the wall and not the chair.
How are you going to run the cable to the shower? underfloor? I take it the chairs are fixed down...
 

Risteard

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Did the last guy leave because he wouldn't do what she wanted? He maybe had a point if she's asking to do it this way.

Yes. I dont see a problem with a shower, IF its fixed to the wall and not the chair.
How are you going to run the cable to the shower? underfloor? I take it the chairs are fixed down...
This is the issue. He has cables run under the floor and the floor has been laid. If an electric shower was to be used (which I'm not overly keen on) then personally I think the wall is the only real place for it rather than the chair. I'm sceptical as to how an electric shower would hold up to commercial use also.

According to her she got rid of whoever was there before. From what I gather this person wasn't an Electrician but probably a handyman. I told her from the outset that I wouldn't get involved with any plumbing, and that I would have to see what she was talking about as the picture given over the phone wasn't particularly clear. So upon arriving I found this like this.

But obviously I don't want her urgency to get this done to pressurise me into doing something I'm not happy with, and saving her money is not particularly a concern of mine. If there is a sensible way forward with this job (which I'm not sure that there is in the timeframe available) then I would want to be making good money from prioritising this at no notice. (It always amazes me how many expect you to jump for them but don't expect to pay good money for the job. I have no interest in cheap work. I'm more interested in "reassuringly expensive".)
 

telectrix

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think the left banke have a solution:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_QVUfZv92U
 

James

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Dragging my thoughts out of the gutter, thanks tel.
 

Risteard

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be OK till she swivels the chair round to give the lady client a shave.
LOL. I don't believe it swivels. And is to be bolted to the floor I'm led to believe. So it would just have forward and backward movement, with the base part having no movement.
 

ferg

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I think I'd suddenly find myself with a full diary for that one.

Chair mounted showers to finish off a job started by a handyman.....

I can picture myself running a mile from that.
 

davesparks

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The hairdresser I go to has 2 of the hair wash stations along with a kitchen sink all fed from a 15L 3kw unvented water heater which is adequate for the 3 hairdressers working in that salon.

I don't see how 2x 8kW units can be in any way economical or energy efficient.
 

bigspark17

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The hairdresser I go to has 2 of the hair wash stations along with a kitchen sink all fed from a 15L 3kw unvented water heater which is adequate for the 3 hairdressers working in that salon.

I don't see how 2x 8kW units can be in any way economical or energy efficient.
well for a start you are only paying for what you use. Water heating via electric is never going to be cheap, the unveted tank would continually be Keeping the water up to temperature and possibly the Water would not get used.
 

Risteard

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I don't see how 2x 8kW units can be in any way economical or energy efficient.
Unquestionably it's neither energy efficient nor economical. That's part of the reason why I don't get the logic of it.
 

davesparks

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well for a start you are only paying for what you use. Water heating via electric is never going to be cheap, the unveted tank would continually be Keeping the water up to temperature and possibly the Water would not get used.
Unvented water heaters are well insulated so that they only loose a tiny amount of heat in 24 hours, I can't remember the exact figure but on one I fitted last week it was surprisingly small.

The heat loss from unused water is very small and I would expect the unvented heater option to have better overall economy and energy efficiency.
 

bigspark17

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Sorry @davesparks i dont think there would be much init economically probably slightly in favour of the instantaneous. & from the salon owners point of view running out or having no hot water is a nightmare and very unprofessional as hair that is coloured or wet cut cannot be done Snd the business losses money And the tank always runs that risk. 15L is not a huge amount!

as a side note if a house had a sink In the kitchen and a basin In The bathroom would you prefer a 120L tank heated off imersion being used or a 10kw instantaneous water heater for economical purposes?
 

mattg4321

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I’d never choose instantaneous option if I had a choice. Inherently more dangerous, looks crap, flow is crap, unreliable, expensive to run.

Combi boiler would probably be ideal in the salon. Wonder what type of heating the place has. If electric then max demand must be getting very close to 100A.
 

rapparee

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I've fitted one of these a few weeks ago to feed 4 wash hand basins.

It heats up quick enough to service the women's toilets, so pretty constant use. Even peak times like lunchtime etc.
 

telectrix

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I've fitted one of these a few weeks ago to feed 4 wash hand basins.

It heats up quick enough to service the women's toilets, so pretty constant use. Even peak times like lunchtime etc.
is that so the women can get hot flushes?
 

Risteard

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Should have updated this.

She rang yesterday morning (after trying to phone on Saturday morning, despite me telling her that the wholesalers would not be open again until Monday due to reduced hours with respect to COVID-19 - I didn't answer the Saturday morning call).

I told her that I didn't see mounting shower units to the chairs as an option as the chairs were not designed for this purpose, but were intended for a hot water feed ran into them. She told me that this was the way she had always done them, and I answered that I appreciated that, but it still wasn't the intention of the manufacturers of either the chair or the shower.

She said she would think about it and get back to me. I've heard nothing since.
 

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