Shower Isolator in a Bathroom airing cupboard

[Dic Penderyn]

Hi All!


Hope you can help with this PIR question!

What code would you give a shower isolator in a bathroom airing cupboard?

 

[telectrix]

as far as i know, as long as it is accessible, no code, no problem. as long as there is a door on the cupboard. not ideal, but nor is it best practice.

 

[kmcgold]

if a pull cord type no problem (no locks on the door)
if not how far away and what zone is it in.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

as far as i know, as long as it is accessible, no code, no problem. as long as there is a door on the cupboard. not ideal, but nor is it best practice.

Thanks telectrix and kmcgold for replies!

When You say it's not ideal nor is it good practice and taking on board what Kmcgold has said.

With the door open it's within zone 2. Would it not warrant a code?

 

[telectrix]

but then you could open the bathroom door ( small bathroom) and then the landing could be in zone 2 by the same argument. the fact that the cupboard has a door puts it outside the bathreoom IMO. some may disagree.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I won't.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

but then you could open the bathroom door ( small bathroom) and then the landing could be in zone 2 by the same argument. the fact that the cupboard has a door puts it outside the bathreoom IMO. some may disagree.

I like your interpretation!

 

[kmcgold]

if it was a walk in cupboard may be but
it is a cupboard inside a bathroom not a different room imo
will you be standing in a zone when operating the switch?

 

[nickblake]

Me im agreeing with telextric no code seperated by a door , so if you take reg 701.32.1 into account then there shouldnt be a problem, reg states horizontal or inclined ceilings walls with or without doors floors and fixed partiones may be taken into account where these effectivly limit the extent of locationjs containing a bath or shower as well as their zones

 

[Octopus]

Hi All!


Hope you can help with this PIR question!

What code would you give a shower isolator in a bathroom airing cupboard?

I wouldn't give it a code, if one had to allocate it a code then it would be a 4 in my opinion.

 

[kmcgold]

will you be standing in a zone when operating the switch?

 

[telectrix]

you stand in the shower to turn it on. the thingy in the cupboard is to isolate, not operate.

 

[kmcgold]

i switch my shower off by the pull switch after use.
(turn dial no sw)

 

[telectrix]

forgot how to use mine, it's not my birthday for a while

 

[Paul.M]

What zone is the inside of a cupboard? ................... As said before if the door is not locked and the switch is accessible there is no problem that I can see. How many fan isolation switches are in bathroom cupboards?

 

[kmcgold]

will you be standing in a zone when operating the switch?

 

[Dic Penderyn]

Me im agreeing with telextric no code seperated by a door , so if you take reg 701.32.1 into account then there shouldnt be a problem, reg states horizontal or inclined ceilings walls with or without doors floors and fixed partiones may be taken into account where these effectivly limit the extent of locationjs containing a bath or shower as well as their zones

[FONT=&quot]Regulation 512.2.1mentions that:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Every item of electrical equipment to be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used, or its type of installation shall take account of the conditions likely to be met. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A socket on a landing would not comply with the regs within a distance of 3m [/FONT][FONT=&quot]horizontally from the boundary of zone 1. Therefore would[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a shower isolator within a cupboard be any different whether you could operate it when standing in the bath or not?[/FONT]

 

[Benny_Boy]

I'd never stick a shower iso in a bathroom cupboard, however, how many boiler spurs have you seen in airing cupboards in bathrooms?

how do you code them there thingys?

 

[telectrix]

and immersion heater spurs. where else would they be. OK. we would probably not now install a shower isolator in an airing cupboard, but then again we would not install a rewireable CU or red/black cable. nothing wrong with them though.

 

[Benny_Boy]

and immersion heater spurs. where else would they be. OK. we would probably not now install a shower isolator in an airing cupboard, but then again we would not install a rewireable CU or red/black cable. nothing wrong with them though.

spot on, but it does raise an interesting question:

If you have to wire a boiler in a bathroom airing cupboard, would you raise an eyebrow at sticking the spur in there as a new install?

Or find somewhere else for the wiring centre and spur?

 

[kmcgold]

if the door was locked and need a tool to open eg chub key lock then ok for boiler etc but not shower
switch,
lets not forget requirements of bs 7671 are based on reasonableness.
you should not be able to operate a switch while in a bathroom zone
unless that switch is suitable for that zone.

 

[Benny_Boy]

Well, I must admit that I've seen heaps of spurs in bathroom airing cupboards with unlockable doors and it's never bothered me. We could do with Sintra (the regs monster) to throw his tuppence worth in. I'm going to peruse BRB in hope of a firm answer. You've got me thinking now as I do quite a bit of testing.

 

[nickblake]

Its a good one , i think the worst bathroom situation ive ever encountered was a socket above the bath, and when i DNed it and said it had to go i was told no it couldnt as she liked to dry her hair whilst in the bath !!!! and thats no joke its a good while ago i may still have a pic i will look for it , on and it was a rewireable board too

 

[Benny_Boy]

Its a good one , i think the worst bathroom situation ive ever encountered was a socket above the bath, and when i DNed it and said it had to go i was told no it couldnt as she liked to dry her hair whilst in the bath !!!! and thats no joke its a good while ago i may still have a pic i will look for it , on and it was a rewireable board too

I did a rewire just before christmas and found a socket in a little tiny cupboard about 3 inches from the edge of the bath. who puts this stuff in?
back to the regs, 701.32.1 really says that basically if the "partition" effectively limits the zone then it would be acceptable. whether it's lockable or not. I think it relies on the installer not being a muppet.

 

[kmcgold]

did you replace the socket when you did the rewire?

 

[Benny_Boy]

did you replace the socket when you did the rewire?

seriously?

Just for the avoidance of doubt.....no I bloody well did not!!

Goes back to not being a muppet I suppose, I guess there'll be no more bath-toast for them!

 

[kmcgold]

but you said , 701.32.1 really says that basically if the "partition" effectively limits the zone then it would be acceptable.

 

[Benny_Boy]

yeah but the second bit of that paragraph says that where the partition's dimensions are less than the dimensions of the relevant zones then the minimum distances shall apply.

So if the airing cupboard is floor to ceiling it's up to you. At least that's my interpretation.

 

[martysparky]

How likely is it albeit may be a possible hazard that someone would unplug the boiler to dry there hair? or flick the switch to off?

I'd say if you did come across a outlet for a boiler in the nearby bathroom cupboard change it for the Sw/F/S, obviously!

 

[Benny_Boy]

Should have maybe made it clear before but a socket in an airing cupboard is a very different proposition to an immersion heater or a boiler spur.

I don't think I'd be happy putting an outlet in a bathroom even if it was in a bloomin safe!

 

[malcolmsanford]

if the door was locked and need a tool to open eg chub key lock then ok for boiler etc but not shower
switch,
lets not forget requirements of bs 7671 are based on reasonableness.
you should not be able to operate a switch while in a bathroom zone
unless that switch is suitable for that zone.

Scenario small bathroom, door entry and bath with shower next to the door on wall. Round the corner within reach in the bath is a wall mounted light switch on the hall wall ...................zone?

 

[nickblake]

Scenario small bathroom, door entry and bath with shower next to the door on wall. Round the corner within reach in the bath is a wall mounted light switch on the hall wall ...................zone?

Exactly, if there a door then there not a problem " Lets not forget requirements of BS7671 are based on reasonableness " and to be honest if its RCD protected as well ,its a bit like saying all sockets should be IP rated ,my daughter once chased me round the house with a super squirter , water jets in the lounge mmmmm

 

[Benny_Boy]

yep, door limits the zone.

 

[telectrix]

maybe there should be a code 5 for PIRs. "summink not quite right but i can't think why"

 

[SimpleSimon]

I can't see a problem, my shower isolator is in my airing cupboard which is next door to the bathroom and is easily accessible. These switches ard used for isolation for maintenance or disconnecting faulty equipment. Functional switching is not a primary point. Therefore as long as it's within ease of access than I wouldn't code it.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

I can't see a problem, my shower isolator is in my airing cupboard which is next door to the bathroom and is easily accessible. These switches ard used for isolation for maintenance or disconnecting faulty equipment. Functional switching is not a primary point. Therefore as long as it's within ease of access than I wouldn't code it.

I agree with what you say with regards to an isolator for maintenance etc.... it doesn't present any a danger.

It's when the isolator is used as a functional switch that opens the disscussion further. I would say alot of people who aren't sparks use it as a switch.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I agree with what you say with regards to an isolator for maintenance etc.... it doesn't present any a danger.

It's when the isolator is used as a functional switch that opens the disscussion further. I would say alot of people who aren't sparks use it as a switch.

Yep thata true, especially when it's a normal looking pull switch. IMO though a big red switch instead would not indicate my mentality to use it as a functional switch, even before I was a spark. But thats just me!

 

[kmcgold]

Even if it limit the zone is the switch suitable for its location?
Can someone still wet just out of the bath operate it?
Would that person still be stood in a zone?