Smart meter install failed

[jcs8215248]

I had arranged for a Smart Meter to be installed today. It would not fit due to the size of the isolation switch currently fitted. See photo of the inside of the meter box located outside.

Is it necessary to fit such a large fused isolation switch? The SWA cable at the bottom runs to a consumer unit in the house.

How much should it cost to change the switch to a smaller model?

The DNO fuse was changed from 60 amp to 100 amp last year when I realised my new induction hob could overload the incoming supply.

 

[Andy78]

I doubt you would have overloaded the 60A fuse due to getting a new hob. What size fuse is in the fused isolator ?
You could probably get a slightly smaller fused isolator fitted if you really really wanted a smart meter, but there doesn't look to be much wrong with your current one.

 

[telectrix]

difficult t o see but is the IP rating round those tails IP44 and sufficient cable restraint? looks like they're loose in a bush.

 

[snowhead]

I see 2 solutions.

1, Get a Smarter Meter installer.
2, Have the grey tails plus earth, moved so they come out of the bottom of the isolator. And blank the old hole off.
Also possibly drop the isolator down slightly if it will go.

The problem would appear to be not enough room to turn the Isolator tails up into the new Smart Meter.

 

[jcs8215248]

I doubt you would have overloaded the 60A fuse due to getting a new hob. What size fuse is in the fused isolator ?
You could probably get a slightly smaller fused isolator fitted if you really really wanted a smart meter, but there doesn't look to be much wrong with your current one.

The Isolator is rated at 100 amp. I have not taken the fuse out to see what is fitted.

There is nothing wrong with the isolator but it prevents the smart meter from being fitted as it is much bigger than the existing meter. The isolator box is 31cm high and 18.5 cm wide which seems excessive.

It is just possible that this box was fitted when the previous occupant had an electric vehicle charging point added. I have not worked out how the charging point is wired. It is just possible that this isolation switch only feeds the charging point and not the main consumer unit. I have not had the opportunity of looking into the main consumer unit.

There is a 4 way consumer unit in the garage that I believe is fed from a 30 amp breaker in the main consumer unit in the house. This feeds the central heating and lighting and two power sockets in the garage. There is a car charging switch/RCD immediately below this consumer unit.

I have not used the car charging point and it has been switched off since we moved in 3 years ago. The previous owners did have an electric car.

I had the supply fuse changed free of charge by the DNO. It was more of a precaution than a demonstrated need but with two ovens, induction hob, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier as well as standard domestic services I thought that, even with diversity it was getting close to the limit.
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I see 2 solutions.

1, Get a Smarter Meter installer.
2, Have the grey tails plus earth, moved so they come out of the bottom of the isolator. And blank the old hole off.
Also possibly drop the isolator down slightly if it will go.

The problem would appear to be not enough room to turn the Isolator tails up into the new Smart Meter.

The Smart Meter installer arrived this afternoon and immediately said it would not fit. He showed me and it was too large overlapping the isolation switch by at least 5 cm. Moving the tails does not give nearly enough space.

The space at the bottom of the isolation switch is about 1 cm to the meter box so no chance of moving it sown.

 

[telectrix]

from that description, i would think that the SWA coming out of that isolator feeds your house CU, probably> 3m run. and then house CU feeds garage CU. it also would appear that the EV charger is fed from the garage CU, which, being itself fed from a 30A MCB, does not seem ideal. however, bear in ming that above is guestimate based on you post/s and may be way off the mark. I'd be inclined to get a local electrician to advise on the situation. smaller isolators are available .

Click DB701 80A Fused Main Switch (KMF)

Scolmore DB701 80A SP Lockable Switch Fuse

www.etcelectrical.co.uk

bear in mind that you'd need a to add some 2" x 2" trunking below that to make off the SWA.

 

[PEG]

I would consider it a near miss,like when you miss your train....and it then de-rails?

I know many,many people,who are now stuck with contracts,issues and limited options for change or additions,who would have paid handsomely for insufficient room in their box...

 

[telectrix]

agree with Peg. why do you want a spy in the box?

 

[jcs8215248]

Update:

After discussing this with NPower they have agreed to visit again (in two weeks) to replace the isolation switch with a smaller one free of charge. Why the smart meter installer could not have done it on this visit I don't know, he had one on his van and showed it to me.

Once this has been changed I then have to book another appointment to have the smart meter installed. The further interesting factor is that my current tariff comes to an end on 30 November so I will be looking for the best supplier. Eon is a lot cheaper (best buy when I looked two days ago) than NPower (and is better than most of the other suppliers) so I will be initiating a switch quite soon!
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from that description, i would think that the SWA coming out of that isolator feeds your house CU, probably> 3m run. and then house CU feeds garage CU. it also would appear that the EV charger is fed from the garage CU, which, being itself fed from a 30A MCB, does not seem ideal. however, bear in ming that above is guestimate based on you post/s and may be way off the mark. I'd be inclined to get a local electrician to advise on the situation. smaller isolators are available .

Click DB701 80A Fused Main Switch (KMF)

Scolmore DB701 80A SP Lockable Switch Fuse

www.etcelectrical.co.uk

bear in mind that you'd need a to add some 2" x 2" trunking below that to make off the SWA.

The SWA comes down the outside wall and enters the meter box and then straight into the isolation switch - no trunking. I have said in another reply that NPower are coming to replace the isolation switch in two weeks free of charge.

I have been trying (not too actively) to get an EICR done on the property. I have had two electricians in for other work but they avoided quoting me for this task. I have yet another one coming in a month and will try again. I have found a few things I was not happy about (e.g. metal switch plates in the kitchen without earth wires, now rectified) but there may be more. I do have all of the certificates but I now suspect that the previous owner did a few changes himself.

 

[snowhead]

I have a friend who moved into a house with a version 1 smart meter fitted by EON.

He's changed suppliers a few times and has had 2 version 2 Smart meters fitted, as not all suppliers can read all Smart meters, despite what was said.
Along the way he's also had to do manula readings rather then the supplier change the meter.

 

[telectrix]

The SWA comes down the outside wall and enters the meter box and then straight into the isolation switch - no trunking.

that's because you can gland SWA into the existing isolator. you can't do that with a KMF.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

That Wylex unit is rather a nice isolator, many suppliers nowadays will fit you a £5 plastic Proteus device and charge you several hundred pounds for the privilege.

 

[ipf]

from that description, i would think that the SWA coming out of that isolator feeds your house CU, probably> 3m run.

First thing I thought, tel...….how far to the DB, swa replacing tails, fused switch as a result. If that's the case it's needed.....and why change to a fart meter?

 

[shaun1]

The device you have is a fused isolator, and is likely required to protect the SWA to the CU. It is almost certainly not the reeponsibilty of either the DNO or supplier, and so you may find that they charge you to replace it if they are even able to do so.

The supplier may supply and fit an isolator as part of their remit, but this probably is not a suitable replacement as therr will be no protection for the cable.

 

[jcs8215248]

The device you have is a fused isolator, and is likely required to protect the SWA to the CU. It is almost certainly not the reeponsibilty of either the DNO or supplier, and so you may find that they charge you to replace it if they are even able to do so.

The supplier may supply and fit an isolator as part of their remit, but this probably is not a suitable replacement as therr will be no protection for the cable.

NPower have arranged a date to replace the isolator free of charge.

I note the comments about the fuse protecting the cable. Is this required by the regulations?

The SWA leaves the meter box at the bottom and then runs up the outside wall to the ceiling level (it is a bungalow) and through the loft to the consumer unit located in the hall cupboard in the centre of the property. This distance is well over 3 metres, probably nearer 10-15 metres. The meter box probably dates to 1981 when the property was built. The isolator was probably fitted when an extension was added about 6-7 years ago and the consumer unit fitted.

 

[Andy78]

NPower have arranged a date to replace the isolator free of charge.

I note the comments about the fuse protecting the cable. Is this required by the regulations?

The SWA leaves the meter box at the bottom and then runs up the outside wall to the ceiling level (it is a bungalow) and through the loft to the consumer unit located in the hall cupboard in the centre of the property. This distance is well over 3 metres, probably nearer 10-15 metres. The meter box probably dates to 1981 when the property was built. The isolator was probably fitted when an extension was added about 6-7 years ago and the consumer unit fitted.

They won't replace that isolator, it doesn't belong to them it belongs to you. I think they have assumed they have an existing isolator they supplied to replace.

The fused isolator is required by the wiring regs to protect the distribution cable and the fuse should not be taken out of the equation. It could possibly be changed for a smaller unit but this would need to be done by an electrician not your energy supplier.

What you don't want to is for a clueless meter fitter to remove the fused unit and replace it with one of their unfused units so they can wedge a smart meter in.

Why do you want a smart meter ? Your current meter still works well enough right ?

 

[jcs8215248]

They won't replace that isolator, it doesn't belong to them it belongs to you. I think they have assumed they have an existing isolator they supplied to replace.

The fused isolator is required by the wiring regs to protect the distribution cable and the fuse should not be taken out of the equation. It could possibly be changed for a smaller unit but this would need to be done by an electrician not your energy supplier.

What you don't want to is for a clueless meter fitter to remove the fused unit and replace it with one of their unfused units so they can wedge a smart meter in.

Why do you want a smart meter ? Your current meter still works well enough right ?

Thanks for the additional information. Although I have a degree in Electrical Engineering I am no longer up to date with current regulations (I worked in the computer industry, now retired) I will attempt to confirm NPower would fit a fused isolator.

The only reason for contemplating having a smart meter is that some energy suppliers now require a smart meter (or to agree to have one fitted within three months) to get the lowest tariffs. I need to review my supplier choice in November (current tariff comes to an end) and having a smart meter appeared to give me more options. When I last checked (a week ago) the lowest cost tariff (Eon) did not have this limitation so I could postpone the change.

 

[Andy78]

I'm 99% certain they won't get involved in replacing that fused isolator, that's a job for an electrician, but would be interesting to hear their response.

See how Bulb compares in november, they are the cheapest for me. £50 credit if you use my link and it might save you a couple hundred quid getting a fused isolator replaced

www.bulb.me/andy5352

 

[jcs8215248]

They won't replace that isolator, it doesn't belong to them it belongs to you. I think they have assumed they have an existing isolator they supplied to replace.

The fused isolator is required by the wiring regs to protect the distribution cable and the fuse should not be taken out of the equation. It could possibly be changed for a smaller unit but this would need to be done by an electrician not your energy supplier.

What you don't want to is for a clueless meter fitter to remove the fused unit and replace it with one of their unfused units so they can wedge a smart meter in.

Why do you want a smart meter ? Your current meter still works well enough right ?

I would be grateful if you can provide me the regulation reference that requires an isolator to contain a fuse. Ideally to quote the relevant paragraph so I can ensure that my installation remains complaint. Do you know if they have to provide me with any certification if they replace the isolator?

 

[shaun1]

There isnt one specific line that states that you must have a fuse. Your method of fault protection for the sub main cable is ADS or automatic disconection of supply. To facilitate this, you need a fuse or MCB upstream of the cable to disconnect ir in the event of a fault. You also need this to provide overload protection if the total load could be higher than the cables current carying capacity. There is a fuse in the service head but the DNO does not permit this to be used to protect the consumers installation and so requires a seperate fuse on meter tails longer than 3m (and SWA or other cable forming a distribution circuit between the meter and CU)