Still fitting plastic ??

[baldsparkies]

With ammendment 3 upon us, there are a lot of plastic cu's still out there.
Basically these can still be fitted up to the implementation date of 1st Jan 2016 regarding steel or non cumbustable enclosures.
So on the new AMD 3 certs that you now have to use, along with a plastic c/u.
How are you commenting on regulation 421.1.201 with reference to its implementation date ie 1/1/16.
Are you doing so within the departures section, seeing as you are filling AMD 3 certs now.
Or indeed, are you mentioning it at all, ?? seeing as your install is dated before 1/1/16.
Be very interested in how others are dealing with this.
I dunno all these changes to regs seem to be getting more and more frequent lads.
You pay a fortune on books and certificate formats and then WHAM it all changes (Yet again) and that's another cash cow your pulling out on, and even more cover your back scenarios to deal with.
Sorry I digress with a rant. lol.

 

[Darkwood]

As its a specific regulation with a delay on it then in respect of cert's it doesn't need addressing until 1/1/16 so no need to mention it. IMHO

 

[telectrix]

i agree with blackadder, sorry, darkwood.

 

[Darkwood]

If your concerned about future sparks reviewing your cert' you could always put a comment in regarding the specific regulation 421.1.201 does not take effect until 1/1/16 and has been excluded from the design/inspection/cert etc'. As its not a departure as such because the regulation isn't in force yet then it doesn't rightly belong in the section of the same heading - but it won't hurt anyone to put it in there for clarity of the exclusion of the regulation.

 

[baldsparkies]

Maybe we should state that the installation doesn't comply with the 18th edition in the departures because the implementation date is yet to be clarified.
Really cover our bottoms lol
Just kidding lads

 

[baldsparkies]

On the other hand, the full statement reads as below. So Implementation date for the reg is Jan 1st, but you should still comply with it prior to that date ????
Now that makes things nice and clear.
To comply or not to comply, its a departure, or not a departure.
Now is it me or do these guys enjoy producing statements that are as clear as mud.
Before that date you can, but you shouldn't ???????

NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016, but does not preclude compliance with the regulation prior to that date.

 

[Paul.M]

I'll still fit plastic for the first few months of 2016, well, I designed it on the 31/12/2015 cough cough

All jokes aside, this is a nonsense reg which most of us dont agree with. A simple design change could have better results eg:-

i) All Neutral bar terminations should have 2 terminal screws.

ii) The Neutral bar should be further away from the plastic enclosure (eg no less than 10mm) or...

iii) Neutral conductors in the CU should not touch or be close to any material prone to melting or catching fire (bring back Bakelite as a neutral bar internal enclosure)

iv) Incoming Tails should have a cable clamp before entry to the Iso switch. (just like the new design metal CU's in case it is a TT system). OR

v) The CU's Iso switch incoming terminations is a lever & spring clamp system just like a Wago. 25mm Tails will never become lose!!!


Or they can keep all of the same terminations as they are and just insist on a metal box that wont melt/catch on fire. IMHO the problem has not been address, only a quick knee jerk reaction to reduce the spread of fire due to poorly installed CU's and limp wrist-ed electricians. The terminations are the problem, not the box that they sit in.

 

[Risteard]

On the other hand, the full statement reads as below. So Implementation date for the reg is Jan 1st, but you should still comply with it prior to that date ????

No, what it states is that it is permitted to install non-combustible distribution boards before that date. (Why they felt the need to state this is beyond me!) It does not state that you "should" do it - simply that you may.

The bigger issue is deciding whether it is sensible to install an item which we know will be prohibited in under six months time.

 

[Midwest]

My local wholesaler is not replacing stocks of plastic...and they are struggling to get stocks of metal ones! Even see that Screwfix are selling the standard dual RCD CU's at about £90, when they used to be £60.

 

[baldsparkies]

No, what it states is that it is permitted to install non-combustible distribution boards before that date. (Why they felt the need to state this is beyond me!) It does not state that you "should" do it - simply that you may.

The bigger issue is deciding whether it is sensible to install an item which we know will be prohibited in under six months time.

Appreciate your interpretation (and I agree with it) but that's deffo not what it states.
What it states, word for word is,

NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016, but does not preclude compliance with the regulation prior to that date.

And that's the problem, ask different people how they would interpret, and like you they will come up with there version.
Not your fault or anyone else's but I take issue with a statement that's based on regulations that's unclear and appears to contradict itself.
Mind you if they did phrase it the way you have, it would be a lot clearer to anyone reading it.
Whole ruddy Idea is a half thought out shambles, that fails to address the real problem any way.

 

[davesparks]

Appreciate your interpretation but that's deffo not what it states.
What it states, word for word is,

NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016, but does not preclude compliance with the regulation prior to that date.

And that's the problem, ask different people how they would interpret, and like you they will come up with there version.
Not your fault or anyone else's but I take issue with a statement that's based on regulations that's unclear and appears to contradict itself.
Whole ruddy Idea is a half thought out shambles, that fails to address the real problem any way.

There's nothing to misinterpret in that particular statement.
The regulation comes in to effect on that date, but that doesn't preclude compliance beforehand.
What is there to misinterpret?
It is required after that date but may be complied with before that date

 

[Risteard]

Appreciate your interpretation but that's deffo not what it states.
What it states, word for word is,

But what I have stated is precisely what "does not preclude" means. The Regulation is not intended to prevent you complying with it earlier. (This does not mean that you must comply earlier.)

 

[stevethesparks]

If your concerned about future sparks reviewing your cert' you could always put a comment in regarding the specific regulation 421.1.201 does not take effect until 1/1/16 and has been excluded from the design/inspection/cert etc'. As its not a departure as such because the regulation isn't in force yet then it doesn't rightly belong in the section of the same heading - but it won't hurt anyone to put it in there for clarity of the exclusion of the regulation.

Its always a good idea to cover ourselves with such notes, but could backfire with a customer who will insist that we should have installed something that would not have become non-compliant in 6 months. With this in mind I would not put any such notes.

 

[Darkwood]

Its always a good idea to cover ourselves with such notes, but could backfire with a customer who will insist that we should have installed something that would not have become non-compliant in 6 months. With this in mind I would not put any such notes.

Not if you liaise correctly with the customer, any customer having a plastic board fitted this year should have had a briefing from the Electrician at the options as is good professional business practice.

 

[baldsparkies]

And I was thinking preclude meant;

prevent, make it impossible for, make it impracticable for, rule out, put a stop to, stop, prohibit, debar, interdict, block, bar, hinder, impede, inhibit,exclude, disqualify, forbid; estop :dunce:

 

[Risteard]

Exactly. Like I said, you are not prohibited from complying earlier than the 1st January. This does not mean that you are required to do so.

And I was thinking preclude meant;

prevent, make it impossible for, make it impracticable for, rule out, put a stop to, stop, prohibit, debar, interdict, block, bar, hinder, impede, inhibit,exclude, disqualify, forbid; estop :dunce:

 

[stevethesparks]

Not if you liaise correctly with the customer, any customer having a plastic board fitted this year should have had a briefing from the Electrician at the options as is good professional business practice.

Fair Comment

 

[davesparks]

And I was thinking preclude meant;

prevent, make it impossible for, make it impracticable for, rule out, put a stop to, stop, prohibit, debar, interdict, block, bar, hinder, impede, inhibit,exclude, disqualify, forbid; estop :dunce:

Yes it does, so you could rewrite the note with the word preclude substituted with prevent

NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016, but does not prevent compliance with the regulation prior to that date.

 

[baldsparkies]

Yes it does, so you could rewrite the note with the word preclude substituted with prevent

NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016, but does not prevent compliance with the regulation prior to that date.

post 3 of this thread.

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...rum/103752-amendment-3-condition-reports.html

:iagree: