Three Phase Flex - two black cores?

[DNS1]

Hi chaps,

Spent today repairing a load of 63A and 125A three phase flexes.

When taking the damaged plugs off I was somewhat surprised to find that two of the cores were the same colour...

Can anyone explain why I've got two black cores and one brown? I was expecting to find black, brown and grey...

 

[Pete999]

Hi chaps,

Spent today repairing a load of 63A and 125A three phase flexes.

When taking the damaged plugs off I was somewhat surprised to find that two of the cores were the same colour...

Can anyone explain why I've got two black cores and one brown? I was expecting to find black, brown and grey...

Are the cores marked L1,L2 L3 and id the machine American?

 

[DNS1]

No markings on the cores and it's UK/European cable. Not connecting up to a machine, just putting the CEE plugs and sockets on.

 

[Pete999]

No markings on the cores and it's UK/European cable. Not connecting up to a machine, just putting the CEE plugs and sockets on.

As long as you identify the cores, can't see a problem

 

[DNS1]

That's the point I'm making, you can't identify the cores without a continuity tester which seems really odd!

 

[Pete999]

That's the point I'm making, you can't identify the cores without a continuity tester which seems really odd!

I have worked with cables like the ones you are on about, sometimes you are supplied with cable like this, yes an initial problem but 5 mins with a continuity meter job done.

 

[rapparee]

Were the machines old soviet stuff. I worked with a slovakian several years ago and he was telling me the old ussr machines would have 2 black cores and both were lives.

This is just spmething i was told and i in no way stand over above statement lol

 

[DNS1]

I have worked with cables like the ones you are on about, sometimes you are supplied with cable like this, yes an initial problem but 5 mins with a continuity meter job done.

I know its easy to solve but just can't understand why anyone would put two cores the same in a cable

 

[telectrix]

brown, black, grey. they all bloody grey in the dark. bring back red/yellow/blue.

 

[R G]

I found a very similar situation with same coloured cores i.e. Black on 2 old German Heidelburg printing machines , just had to swop phases to get the rotation correct ,

 

[Marvo]

I've come across neoprene power trailing cable with 2 black wires and also with 3 black wires in a 5 wire cable. Not sure why or what it conforms to but if you've got time to comb though this you might find the standard.

 

[JD6400]

Had the same on some large Italian coffee machines in the past , just thought it must be the way they do it in far away land !?

 

[shanky887614]

usually they have numbers on that are hard to see, it might be further down the cores than you can see.

or maybe not, a friend bought some twin that was brn,brn.

he only knew which was which because he used the top as one and bottom as two (using the manufacturer's markings on sheath)

 

[davesparks]

Yes a lot of older black rubber flex has two identical black cores in it, I think it is a relic of the days when electricians were taught to use their brains.

We've got a fair amount of it in our hire stock of 63A and 125A extension cables.

 

[rapparee]

usually they have numbers on that are hard to see, it might be further down the cores than you can see.

or maybe not, a friend bought some twin that was brn,brn.

he only knew which was which because he used the top as one and bottom as two (using the manufacturer's markings on sheath)

Twin brown is hardly a novelty. It is for your strappers in a two way lighting cicuit

 

[shanky887614]

Twin brown is hardly a novelty. It is for your strappers in a two way lighting cicuit

no but what im saying is all cores are not always marked/identified (a mate had clipped it along a front of a house before they realises, they thought they bought normal brn+blu)

 

[Rockingit]

Sometimes I'm also convinced it's where the dye process has just made the grey too dark. Like Tel says, in the dark you don't stand a chance!

 

[Risteard]

Twin brown is hardly a novelty. It is for your strappers in a two way lighting cicuit

Not just strappers but also for your switch drop for a one-way switch in a three-plate domestic setup.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Screw fix, used to sell twin brown T+E dunno if they still do. Waste of time IMO, just makes the 2nd fix a pain the arse having to bell the cable out.

 

[Pete999]

Screw fix, used to sell twin brown T+E dunno if they still do. Waste of time IMO, just makes the 2nd fix a pain the arse having to bell the cable out.

What are you talking about?

 

[Leesparkykent]

What are you talking about?

Read the previous posts and you might realise

 

[rapparee]

Do the english not use twin brown are is lee out on his own.

 

[Risteard]

Do the english not use twin brown are is lee out on his own.

Twin brown (and twin red previously) is an Irish thing really. Not sure why as it's a better way of doing things.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Brown/black/black was standard in a number of EU countries before harmonisation and a lot of EU-made flex had those colours. If you look into the end of the cable the three lines will usually be laid up together and I always wire them so that they run in order i.e. L2 is the black next to L1 brown. The advantage of these colours, if you like to cheat, is that you know which is L1 and you can arrange the other two to suit, to make your machine go the right way!

I'm surprised so few people have seen it. Like Davesparks I've had miles through my hands and it was bog standard until 2004.

 

[Marvo]

I've see it a few times but never realised it was an EU standard at one time or other. Like Rockingit I also thought it might be the dying process making the gray too dark to distinguish from the black but never got around to looking into it any further.

 

[Pete999]

Read the previous posts and you might realise

The only time you have to "bell out a twin brown" would be at multiple switch positions, hardly a big job is it better than fiddling around with bits of sleeving, or tape in some cases, people will be wanting twin brown labled Line and Switch line next.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The only time you have to "bell out a twin brown" would be at multiple switch positions, hardly a big job is it better than fiddling around with bits of sleeving, or tape in some cases, people will be wanting twin brown labled Line and Switch line next.

I suppose, but still quicker to slide a bit of sleeving on lol

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I take it no one has seen 5 core with 4 blacks then?

 

[davesparks]

I take it no one has seen 5 core with 4 blacks then?

Yes, but only ever with numbers on the cores such as YY

 

[Pete999]

I take it no one has seen 5 core with 4 blacks then?

Seen a 5 core all white

 

[Plonker 3]

Seen a 5 core all white

Omly ever seen a 7 core all whte and that was a SWA.

 

[shanky887614]

Omly ever seen a 7 core all whte and that was a SWA.

i havent seen a 7core but have dragged in a 19 core and 27pair (last was a special order)

 

[UNG]

usually they have numbers on that are hard to see, it might be further down the cores than you can see.

or maybe not, a friend bought some twin that was brn,brn.

he only knew which was which because he used the top as one and bottom as two (using the manufacturer's markings on sheath)

Never used the twin brown but if it is the same as the twin red used to be it was identified by looking at the core ends one core had an inner white tracer in the insulation

Twin brown (and twin red previously) is an Irish thing really. Not sure why as it's a better way of doing things.

Not sure why you suggest it is an Irish thing it's lack of use in the UK IMO is down to a lack of knowledge of the different forms a cable is available in and also the fact that the councils housing stock was transferred to housing associations who mainly specced it's use. Finding 6241Y and 6181Y in 1.0mm and 1.5mm as well as twin brown these days can be difficult yet it's use was quite common a number of years ago. The biggest thing against twin brown is it is usually a bit more expensive due to low production runs

 

[Knobhead]

i havent seen a 7core but have dragged in a 19 core and 27pair (last was a special order)

27c? Special order? It’s a bog standard cable.

 

[shanky887614]

27c? Special order? It’s a bog standard cable.

not from an electrical wholesaler tony.

we use a small independent, get it delivered direct from manufacturer to site

and 27 pair not core.

e.g. 54c not 27

 

[Risteard]

Not sure why you suggest it is an Irish thing

Just because no-one here would dream of overmarking brown and blue, and indeed in the south such practice is prohibited under ET101.

 

[Knobhead]

not from an electrical wholesaler tony.

we use a small independent, get it delivered direct from manufacturer to site

and 27 pair not core.

e.g. 54c not 27

I’ve only worked for multinationals where any cable out of the ordinary came direct from the manufacturers if it wasn’t stores stock. Most cables would be on stock although I did stump them when I needed 450m of 500mm[SUP]2[/SUP] cambric singles in a hurry.

Local wholesalers wouldn’t get a look in as they seemed to have this weird idea they could charge for their service.

 

[UNG]

Just because no-one here would dream of overmarking brown and blue, and indeed in the south such practice is prohibited under ET101.

Ok not well up on ET101 so that's a new one on me