Unusual circuit on a EICR

[Gavin John Hyde]

Been at an apartment doing eicr this afternoon as they want to put it on air BnB, they have gas cooker and hob. owner had kitchen fitted and the fitter it appears used the cooker circuit (10mm T&E, 40 MCB, RCD etc) to feed a single socket, for a built in tall fridge/freezer.
The old cooker switch (recently changed to chrome to match) above the worktop isolates the fridge/freezer
From the cooker connection plate is wired a piece of 2.5mm twin and earth clipped direct behind cupboards into the double socket in the adjacent cupboard which the appliance plugs into.
its not a conventional design by any means, it incorporates an isolation switch (old cooker isolator). all testing comes back as within limits and would disconnect in a fault.
Am thinking a C2? but more i think about it am stuck between C3 or a C2
- 40 amp MCB is over rated for the 2.5mm run of cable to socket.
- enclosure (the cooker plate) not suitable for environment/ installation.
At very least Improvement recommended.

Thoughts?

 

[Leesparkykent]

C2 imo.

 

[buzzlightyear]

me too would have put a c2 for the mcb over rated .

 

[Andy78]

Food for thought.........The regs allow a 2.5mm spur from a ring supplying a double socket where the ccc of the cable is less than the ocpd

 

[Strima]

C3 for me at the moment as there's no risk of overload on the 2.5mm unless additional sockets are added.

Easy enough fix though.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

What is the maximum permissible OCPD rating for a 13A socket outlet?

 

[westward10]

Can the cpc of the cable to the socket withstand the fault current required to trip the 40A device.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

In anycase i will be going back for the remedials. she already said she wanted me to fix anything I found. i do like it when a customer says dont worry about cost! By putting it on Air BnB she reckons she can get over £3k per month for a 2nd floor 2 bed flat in the centre of Bath! 3 times what shed get for a normal tenancy.
I Will change the mcb out for a more suitable rated one, and replace the twin and earth for some heat resistant flex as its behind gas cooker and fit it into a 20 amp flex outlet that will be fitted in lieu of the cooker outlet.

 

[Octopus]

If the CCC reduction is less than 2 meters no code....

 

[westward10]

If the CCC reduction is less than 2 meters no code....

Does that consider fault current to the cpc.

 

[Octopus]

Does that consider fault current to the cpc.

Yes ......

 

[Ian1981]

If the CCC reduction is less than 2 meters no code....

Where did you get 2 meters from?
Or did you mean 3?

 

[Nigel]

C3 in my opinion. There is no danger here. Just an odd way of wiring. Improvement recommended but not dangerous.

 

[Ian1981]

If there’s no danger why does it warrant any code?

 

[Pete999]

Been at an apartment doing eicr this afternoon as they want to put it on air BnB, they have gas cooker and hob. owner had kitchen fitted and the fitter it appears used the cooker circuit (10mm T&E, 40 MCB, RCD etc) to feed a single socket, for a built in tall fridge/freezer.
The old cooker switch (recently changed to chrome to match) above the worktop isolates the fridge/freezer
From the cooker connection plate is wired a piece of 2.5mm twin and earth clipped direct behind cupboards into the double socket in the adjacent cupboard which the appliance plugs into.
its not a conventional design by any means, it incorporates an isolation switch (old cooker isolator). all testing comes back as within limits and would disconnect in a fault.
Am thinking a C2? but more i think about it am stuck between C3 or a C2
- 40 amp MCB is over rated for the 2.5mm run of cable to socket.
- enclosure (the cooker plate) not suitable for environment/ installation.
At very least Improvement recommended.

Thoughts?

Go on air BnB?? tin hat on

 

[westward10]

I think at times it is difficult to Code something which is a lash up.

 

[johnduffell]

If the CCC reduction is less than 2 meters no code....

Assuming you're invoking the 3m rule to allow a cable which fails the adiabatic on the fault current, that only applie where both fault protection is omitted (vaporising the cpc probably counts as omission) And, if the cable is unlikely to suffer damage.
T&e in a wall wouldn't comply with the latter, but if it's rcd protected then that could cover the fault protection.
Not sure how the ocpd over 32a would be covered for supplying an accessory though.
I'm not an electrician though!

 

[Nigel]

If there’s no danger why does it warrant any code?

There is no danger to not marking CPCs as green and yellow but that would still be a C3.

 

[Nigel]

There is no danger to not marking CPCs as green and yellow but that would still be a C3.

I think at times it is difficult to Code something which is a lash up.

Agreed.

 

[Ian1981]

There is no 2 meter exception on bs 7671.
There is 434.2.1 which has 3 indents that need full filing