Washing machine and Tumble dryer in shower room - issue with electrical install

[vards9]

Hi There,

Homeowner here with no electrical knowledge, so go easy on me!

We've had our garage converted, and coming to the end of the project. We've had a shower/utility room (2.7m x 1.5m) added as part of the conversion, within which is housed a stacked Tumble Dryer on top of a washing machine. They are not enclosed in a cupboard. For context, the shower in this room will only be used sporadically - it's not a principal bathroom.

Inexplicably, the electrician has connected the machines to a "normal" socket contained within the shower room itself, which even i know contravenes the 3 metre regulations.

I've brought this up with the project manager who suggested they can replace with an RCD protected "outdoor" socket. I've asked if this adheres to regs, but it has since been radio silence. I've lost a bit of trust in the project manager due to some of her responses, and the electrician has made a few other errors which is now causing me to question absolutely everything.

Could anyone give a steer on potential solutions which would make this setup adhere to regulations. Ideally i wouldn't house the units in a cupboard, but if it's the only solution, then we can bite the bullet. Given i've lost a bit of trust in the project manager, and clearly the electrician can't be trusted if installing a bogstandard socket in that environment without batting an eyelid, i'm looking for some independent verification of what actually would adhere to regulations.

Many thanks!

 

[littlespark]

Normally you can’t put any type of socket in a room containing a shower, (including those designed for outside)
It doesn’t matter if it’s only for occasional use.

 

[vards9]

Thank you @littlespark . My own hunch was that simply changing to an RCD protected outdoor socket makes no difference whatsoever from an adherence to regs perspective, but happy to be proved wrong!

The occasional use comment was more to try and pre-emptively ward off any "it's a terrible idea to have a washing machine and dryer in a shower room" (i.e. the machines are onyl sporadically going to be exposed to the humidity from a shower running). That's as may be but what is done is done!

Just looking for ways to sort, if there are any!

 

[brianmoooore]

Regs are quite clear on this. The drier and washing machine both need to be hard wired via switched fused connection units, and these FCUs must be positioned at least 600mm away from the shower.*

* The full rules for the positioning are a bit more complex than this, but this is what normally would apply.

 

[timhoward]

By "normally", @littlesparks means 'given the size of most UK bathrooms'.
As already mentioned sockets are allowed 3m from edge of zone 1 but that is little help if the room isn't big enough.

A birds-eye plan with measurements would help answer this. I have two possible ideas, either use FCUs outside zone 2 or have the socket the other size of the wall, though more details need checking.

Other question - given this room is a "special location" and new circuits have probably been provided, was the electrician in a competent persons scheme like NICEIEC or NAPIT, as LABC need notifying of this work.

 

[timhoward]

Regs are quite clear on this. The drier and washing machine both need to be hard wired via switched fused connection units, and these FCUs must be positioned at least 600mm away from the shower.*

* The full rules for the positioning are a bit more complex than this, but this is what normally would apply.

I don't have regs with me. So this might be wrong. I had hunch that applied to shaver sockets and am fairly sure FCU's have to be out of zone 2? EDIT which is 600mm away from edge of shower, I will engage brain in a minute....

 

[brianmoooore]

Exactly, the end of zone 2 starts 600mm from the shower edge.

 

[timhoward]

Exactly, the end of zone 2 starts 600mm from the shower edge.

Face palm moment!!!! Sorry

 

[Rockingit]

As others have said - either hard wired into fused connection units or a flex outlet plate with the fuse/switch elsewhere. What is most troubling, though, is that you've had to come on here to check this - I'd be watching what else may have gone on!

 

[brianmoooore]

What is most troubling, though, is that you've had to come on here to check this - I'd be watching what else may have gone on!

Agreed! We shouldn't have to be educating an 'electrician' about something as basic as this. Especially one that's doing work in a special location.
The project manager is about what I expect, which is why I've never taken the slightest bit of notice of one.

 

[vards9]

Thanks all, will upload a (very) basic floor plan in a few mins. Hard to draw using a tape measure as a ruler!

I share the concerns you've raised, hence why i'm on here! Am wondering if i can get the council to stick an electrical check onto the final building control sign off. The checks to date as specified in contract only include foundations, walls, floors, and drainage

 

[DPG]

Worrying that their solution is an RCD protected socket - surely the shower room circuits are already RCD protected?

 

[Rockingit]

Worrying that their solution is an RCD protected socket - surely the shower room circuits are already RCD protected?

Especially as RCD sockets are currently in the sin-bin until the IEC sort the standards out!

 

[littlespark]

The OP stated the size of the room as 2.7 by 1.5… I would guess a 600x600 shower cubicle in a corner? Doesn’t give much room for measuring zones.

There are ways and means of getting round it, but most include building a new wall, or other fixed partition.

 

[vards9]

Here is my rudimentary plan. It's actually 2.6 x 1.4

80x80 shower tucked into corner - corner opening so to allow for proper clearance from toilet. Pocket door entry to save space

Dryer and washing machine in back left corner, existing socket marked by X. The letters looking like Y, N and T are to denote switches on the wall for bathroom lighting, bathroom extractor, and an MK Sentry consumer unit (for the garage circuitry i guess). These are positioned outside the bathroom on same partition wall

Note, the other side of the wall on which the socket is, is earmarked for a wallbed, which will take up 95% of the width of that wall in case that impacts any solutions.

 

[timhoward]

Am wondering if i can get the council to stick an electrical check onto the final building control sign off

Ultimately the onus is on you to hold an electrical installation certificate. If the PM engaged the electrician then this task would normally be considered delegated (if they are good at their job). If no mention of one has been made so far then I would raise it with either the PM or the electrician very soon.

Until you are sure you are getting one I wouldn't make a rod for your own back by bringing up the electrics with building control. Even though I agree with the sentiment, and in an ideal world it should work that way, the reality is that they won't be doing an electrical check for free, if at all. But they might suddenly want to see an EIC if you suggest it's substandard.

 

[SJD]

Most building control depts don't have much electrical knowledge, and likely would not be in a position to do any inspecting (or testing) of the electrics - other than subcontract it out, and send you the invoice. As above, I'd be wary of making them think they need to.

 

[timhoward]

Here is my rudimentary plan. It's actually 2.6 x 1.4

80x80 shower tucked into corner - corner opening so to allow for proper clearance from toilet. Pocket door entry to save space

Dryer and washing machine in back left corner, existing socket marked by X. The letters looking like Y, N and T are to denote switches on the wall for bathroom lighting, bathroom extractor, and an MK Sentry consumer unit (for the garage circuitry i guess).

Note, the other side of the wall on which the socket is, is earmarked for a wallbed, which will take up 95% of the width of that wall in case that impacts any solutions.

X is outside zone 2 and fine for an FCU. The appliances themselves look to be outside zone 2 as well.

I'm I'm reading it right, the light switch and the fan isolator will be in zone 2, and switchgear is not permitted in zone 2.
A consumer unit in zone 2 is a no-no.

 

[littlespark]

As is the confusion with the regs sometimes, if the shower wasn’t there, there wouldn’t be a problem. Even with the toilet and basin there.

 

[vards9]

Ultimately the onus is on you to hold an electrical installation certificate. If the PM engaged the electrician then this task would normally be considered delegated (if they are good at their job). If no mention of one has been made so far then I would raise it with either the PM or the electrician very soon.

Until you are sure you are getting one I wouldn't make a rod for your own back by bringing up the electrics with building control. Even though I agree with the sentiment, and in an ideal world it should work that way, the reality is that they won't be doing an electrical check for free, if at all. But they might suddenly want to see an EIC if you suggest it's substandard.

Thanks tim.

I'm just wondering what my "outs" are here.

I tell the PM i'd like an EIC certificate once completed. This then presumably a) focuses their mind to get it sorted properly, b) they can't/won't, ergo it becomes apparent the electrician doesn't hold the requisite qualifications to do it? or c) they provide a certificate without the work actually adhering to regs.

I suppose in the case of b) or c) i'm not actually sure where that then leaves me. I'm just at the point where i'm looking for the best way to sort it. As is, i expect them to rectify and swallow the cost for doing it, but i have no issue being in touch with building control, if that gives me some recourse to get them to finish it to adhere to regs.