Who's right EDF or me??

[plug444]

I will apologise in advance for a rather long first post but this has really (NO SWEARING) me off today.

Been doing a 400 year old barn conversion. Had to have EDF do a new mains install comprising of a 3 phase 100A PME supply. This involved major underground ducting work due to the overhead power poles needed to be removed from the 4 acre garden etc. This all went very smoothly and they installed my new service head into my external enclosure

My distribution board is mounted some 15mts away so I have run a 25mm 4 core swa, in the correct ducting under the foundations,to a 4 pole isolator. This isolator is mounted in a IP65 enclosure fixed to the side of my surface meter box, 25mm tails from this into the meter box

Now the problem!! Today was the big day for the meter to be installed. I had dead tested and certificated all my wiring to BS7671, made sure everything was clearly marked up with warning labels etc, all bonding etc done, great or so I thought.

Meter man turned up and walked round the barn like a big proud cockerell looking for problems of which he could find nothing. Opened my enclosure and said 'thats no good' refering to my isolator. Apparently he say's that I must fit a TPN switch fuse, not a isolator, to protect their fuses and the sub main cable. Now I am pretty sure that the regs state that I must provide a means of isolation for my cable, which I have done, nothing about fusing it twice

He waffled on about the possability of a major fault occuring and blowing their supply fuses. Now every circuit on my distribution board is protected via a RCBO on a PME supply. By my calculations it would take a fault of over 33kA to blow the head fuses and my protected circuits would shut down way before that so whats his problem!!

Opinions greatly received.

 

[Spudnik]

Sorry but he is right.

They will only protect the first 3 or 4M of tails, any further than that then YOU must provide a suitable switch fuse.

Its the same with all the DNO's domestic or commercial.

 

[slocm3105]

As Jason said mate he is correct. Bit of a pain I know but i'm sure it wouldn't take ya long to install a FCU in there .

 

[plug444]

As Jason said mate he is correct. Bit of a pain I know but i'm sure it wouldn't take ya long to install a FCU in there .

Its not so much the time as cost. £300 plus for a MEM switch fuse and a new enclosure too suit!

Whats to stop me installing a 100A type 'C' mcb into my enclosure. Far greater protection than a BS88 or 1361?

 

[slocm3105]

Its not so much the time as cost. £300 plus for a MEM switch fuse and a new enclosure too suit!

Whats to stop me installing a 100A type 'C' mcb into my enclosure. Far greater protection than a BS88 or 1361?

To be fair, you should have known about this. So protect it suitably and get it done .

 

[plug444]

To be fair, you should have known about this. So protect it suitably and get it done .

We can't all be perfect

 

[Spudnik]

Not at all mate,

Everyday is a school day in this game.

 

[sparks1234]

To be fair, you should have known about this. So protect it suitably and get it done .

Disagree here.

I have had various electric boards give different versions of what they require in this situation.

I work around the country and the story for various stuff is different everywhere.

I cannot remember the last time I actually had an electric board person check the installation, once you have signed that bit of paper it takes the responsibility away from them.

I have had sub-mains connected without a switch-fuse after the main fuses,

Think the lesson here is to make the call first

HTH

 

[plug444]

Disagree here.

I have had various electric boards give different versions of what they require in this situation.

I work around the country and the story for various stuff is different everywhere.

I cannot remember the last time I actually had an electric board person check the installation, once you have signed that bit of paper it takes the responsibility away from them.

I have had sub-mains connected without a switch-fuse after the main fuses,

Think the lesson here is to make the call first

HTH

Exactly that, every area seems to be different. I am also doing a installation in South London with new mains and they have asked for isolators to be fitted not switch fuses.

I have signed a piece of paper which makes this installation my responsability not theirs.

As far as I am concerned what goes on after the meter has nothing to do with EDF which is why I spent hundreds of pounds a year to have my work checked by assessors to make sure everything I do is safe.

Would also like to add that I came on this forum for genuine advice and not to be patronised by some, and I will be the first to admit that I learn something new every day even after 28 years and am proud of what I do!!

 

[Steve1412]

The supply regs do say there should be a fusible switching device as close a practicable to the incoming supply. You should have made them take the supply to your dist board. I have never had a supply guy check the install...the most they ever do is say'"Ow big are these tails mate???"

 

[Spudnik]

Exactly that, every area seems to be different. I am also doing a installation in South London with new mains and they have asked for isolators to be fitted not switch fuses.

I have signed a piece of paper which makes this installation my responsability not theirs.

As far as I am concerned what goes on after the meter has nothing to do with EDF which is why I spent hundreds of pounds a year to have my work checked by assessors to make sure everything I do is safe.

Would also like to add that I came on this forum for genuine advice and not to be patronised by some, and I will be the first to admit that I learn something new every day even after 28 years and am proud of what I do!!

Many DNO's are now fitting 'self connect' switches for the purpose that the electrician can connect the tails without removing seals etc. In fact many new builds have 'self connect' meters which serve the same purpose.

I agree about the installation being your responsibility, however, its their equipment that you want to connect to, so they do have some say in it and that is 3 or 4 meters max for length of tails and anything further must have a switch fuse.

 

[plug444]

I have managed to source an IP65 rated 100A TPN switch fuse which will be fitted on monday to keep them happy. Far cheaper than a MEM switch fuse plus the enclosure to fit it in was enormous. Job done!!!

 

[Spudnik]

Good job bud.

You know it makes sense

 

[plug444]

Good job bud.

You know it makes sense

Was never going to win, lesson learn't and won't get caught out again. Learn something new every day and a bargain @ £200

 

[slocm3105]

Was never going to win, lesson learn't and won't get caught out again. Learn something new every day and a bargain @ £200

Nice one mate. I didn't mean to sound like a bit of an a** in my previous post, just read it back so sorry about that. But good job on getting it sorted

 

[plug444]

Round 2 with EDF. Different meter man turns up today to connect my new supply. Has the usual walk round site checking my bonding etc all OK. Checks my new switch fuse, meter tails etc all OK. Askes what size my sub main cable is to which I reply, 25mm 4 core swa. Askes if I am using the armouring as my main cpc to which I reply yes. Looks at me and says well I cannot connect as the armouring is of insufficient size as I must have a minimum csa of 16mm. I then try to explain to him that the csa of the armouring was calculated and worked out to be more than sufficient for this new supply. He then phones his boss and comes back to me and says not allowed to connect. Asked him if he could give me 5 minutes to prove he was wrong and with that he handed me a failure notice, got in his van and drove off!!!
I have double checked this again using in section 543 using tables 54.4, 54.7 and 43.1 and basically the armour equates to a csa of 70mm in steel which is the equivalent csa of 22.5mm of a copper cpc. A completely wasted day, most of which was spent on the phone trying to get through to someone sensible at EDF.

 

[slocm3105]

Round 2 with EDF. Different meter man turns up today to connect my new supply. Has the usual walk round site checking my bonding etc all OK. Checks my new switch fuse, meter tails etc all OK. Askes what size my sub main cable is to which I reply, 25mm 4 core swa. Askes if I am using the armouring as my main cpc to which I reply yes. Looks at me and says well I cannot connect as the armouring is of insufficient size as I must have a minimum csa of 16mm. I then try to explain to him that the csa of the armouring was calculated and worked out to be more than sufficient for this new supply. He then phones his boss and comes back to me and says not allowed to connect. Asked him if he could give me 5 minutes to prove he was wrong and with that he handed me a failure notice, got in his van and drove off!!!
I have double checked this again using in section 543 using tables 54.4, 54.7 and 43.1 and basically the armour equates to a csa of 70mm in steel which is the equivalent csa of 22.5mm of a copper cpc. A completely wasted day, most of which was spent on the phone trying to get through to someone sensible at EDF.

You shoulda chopped his arms off, an used them to connect it up yourself mate . No talking to them about anything mate they won't understand lol.

 

[plug444]

I am not going to let this one go. Have got them coming to site again on Friday and I will be armed with my regs books, tables etc and will not rest until they connect. Watch this space!!!

 

[ian.settle1]

I am not going to let this one go. Have got them coming to site again on Friday and I will be armed with my regs books, tables etc and will not rest until they connect. Watch this space!!!

Regs book will be a waste of time as it only cover your installation and not the supply from the DNO who come under ESQCR regs which they work to, your in a no win situation.

I would just contact them to find out what they want before you get them to site again.

 

[plug444]

Regs book will be a waste of time as it only cover your installation and not the supply from the DNO who come under ESQCR regs which they work to, your in a no win situation.

I would just contact them to find out what they want before you get them to site again.

I know exactly what they want, my sub main cpc to have a csa of least 16mm. I can prove that my armouring way exceeds that so whats the problem with connecting. Easy to say just do what they want but tell the owner that he now has to dig up his newley landscaped garden because EDF say so and make up the rules as they go along.