why is there no earth

[lofts]

Im waiting for acceptance in the training forums but whilst I do I have a question. Ive always been told to earth things for example sockets that are not standard plastic but shinny nickel, I know you can get away with just using the lugs on a back box and the screws which are used to pull the socket face plate tight to the metal back box if the lugs are fixed however I still but an earth cable from the earth terminal on this back box to the earth terminal on the back of the socket juse because its good practice imo.

Whats baffling me is these new spotlights Ive just got from screwfix, they are Robus and the instructions say DO NOT EARTH! my initial thoughts were that this was a mistake but upon further investigation there is no earth terminal at te fitting just a Live and Neutral. My question is why dont the have an earth terminal as surely this is wrong. They are chrome so surely an earth is needed. Tempted to ring Rombus up and ask why but thought I would try here first as one of you guys will probably no why?

cheers

 

[simpson93]

double insulated fittings?

 

[telectrix]

are these GU10 fittings? the answer is that the lamp holder is electrically separate from the metal housing and as such they are classII items. earthing is not required.

 

[happyhippy68]

The appliance will usually be double insulated and will have a symbol on it that looks like a square in a square. This means that any metal in the fitting is protected from contact with the supply and does not need to be considered as an electrically conductive part in this instance and therefore does not required bonding via the CPC to the main mass of earth.

 

[gazzamikes]

Class II mate.

Have a look on google at class I and class II items.

Do the instructions or box have a square with a smaller square inside?

 

[lofts]

Cheers guys I wondered what was going on for a moment there but yes they have a square within a square symbol so are double insulated (just learnt something) with additional safety precautions such as supplementary insulation taking place.

Im obviously using 1.5mm twin and earth to wire these in and at work I always put the earth into a choc block if the alternative is to cut it of. From what Ive just read on google and picked up on here it really isn't needed?

If it was you would you just cut the cpc's of or should I just choc block them for good pactice.

cheers again

Justin

 

[happyhippy68]

Cheers guys I wondered what was going on for a moment there but yes they have a square within a square symbol and Ive just learnt that that means itit has additional safety precautions such as supplementary insulation. Im obviously using 1.5mm twin and earth at work I always put the earth into a choc block if the alternative is to cut it of. But from what Ive just read and picked up from here it really isnt needed. If it was you would you just cut the cpc's of or should I just choc block them for good pactice. cheers again

Good practice would be to choc block and tape. If the customer replaces the fitting at a later date then the next electrician will appreciate your consideration as he may require the CPC if the new fitting is class 1.

 

[robsparky1975]

The cpc still needs to be continious on the circuit.

 

[telectrix]

aarrrrgggggh. choc blocks. use bloody line lighting kits. T/E into the line enclosure one end. flex out to fitting. terminate the cpc inside the line enclosure.

 

[robsparky1975]

One method would be to use a JB(not a round one)and terminate into it and take suitable flex to each downlight.

 

[telectrix]

nothing wrong with round JBs either. they are accessible through the hole in the ceiling. just fiddly.

 

[lofts]

anything worng with 30A terminal heavy junction box for this job as ive got a couple in the van

 

[simpson93]

if it fits

 

[lofts]

cheers I just like to double check everything it in my natre. right of to do the spotlights now thanks for the help

 

[Geoffsd]

What wattage are these lamps that they need 1.5mm² conductors and 30A terminal blocks?

Sorry, just pet hates.

 

[telectrix]

1.0mm is usually enough. bear in mind that there the T/E probably feeds all the lights on that floor or the whole house .

 

[Silly Sausage]

I could have done with one of those Line jobs the other day.
Have to own up to using a 30A round JB, cringe!
I did crimp the ends of the flex though, which eased the pain slightly.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

anything worng with 30A terminal heavy junction box for this job as ive got a couple in the van

well...will it fit through the hole you cut out for the fitting?

 

[chrish_1977]

Never go on what people tell you, always read the instructions, the person telling you could be wrong

 

[D Skelton]

If it was you would you just cut the cpc's of or should I just choc block them for good pactice.

From memory 412.2.3.2 essentially says that you have to run and terminate a protective conductor to each accessory. I can't remember the exact wording but this is not just good practice, it is a requirement. That is presuming the installation is not under the supervision of someone who will ensure that these fittings will never be changed to class 1 pieces of equipment.

 

[Octopus]

This thread has the hallmarks of a member recently ejected, with a very simlar name and location.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

From memory 412.2.3.2 essentially says that you have to run and terminate a protective conductor to each accessory. I can't remember the exact wording but this is not just good practice, it is a requirement. That is presuming the installation is not under the supervision of someone who will ensure that these fittings will never be changed to class 1 pieces of equipment.

means of earthing (CPC) at every point on an installation (initial verification)....or words to that effect damion..

 

[Silly Sausage]

This thread has the hallmarks of a member recently ejected, with a very simlar name and location.

At least this time he's admitted he's a trainee.
See Lofty in t'Arms.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

At least this time he's admitted he's a trainee.
See Lofty in t'Arms.

is this Lofty not looking down from a `lofty perch` then Archy?..lol...

 

[Lee Marshall]

the ashley 501 jb's are much easier to work with than the small round jb's i find

 

[hotfingers]

Hi sorry to bother you archi new round this site and don't no how to get around here yet . I posted a problem a few days ago and you replied can you get bak to me pls,many thanks hot fingers ..

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hi sorry to bother you archi new round this site and don't no how to get around here yet . I posted a problem a few days ago and you replied can you get bak to me pls,many thanks hot fingers ..

Eh????

 

[tom79bmth]

i hope they accept you in the training forum you need it

 

[Des 56]

Eh????

It's either this thread http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...l-electrical-forum/73854-help.html#post734622 or the new member has taken a shine to you Archie

 

[Richard]

Im waiting for acceptance in the training forums but whilst I do I have a question. Ive always been told to earth things for example sockets that are not standard plastic but shinny nickel, I know you can get away with just using the lugs on a back box and the screws which are used to pull the socket face plate tight to the metal back box if the lugs are fixed however I still but an earth cable from the earth terminal on this back box to the earth terminal on the back of the socket juse because its good practice imo.

Switches maybe, but I hope thats not how your terminating sockets...!?

 

[Silly Sausage]

It's either this thread http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...l-electrical-forum/73854-help.html#post734622 or the new member has taken a shine to you Archie

I got a friends request...straight in the bin!
Getting ball shuddering memories of H69

 

[hotfingers]

Haha needed some advice goin back in the office Monday morning an only archi came up with something which sounded similar.think I need to do another clamp meter test when the office is full ie Monday morning! Cheers anyway chaps

 

[lofts]

what are you on about richard youve lost me. when I terminate a socet I put the cables in the relevant holes. I then get a bit of cpc from some 2.5 screw it to the earth teminal on the back box sleeve it and then pop it in the earth terminal on the socket.

I know thats right so not sure what you going on about if im honest



ps I hope to get accepted onto the training forums to, when I do Ill be learning alot hopefully and will be quick to jump on anyone who p[osts something wrongly. ESPECIALLY MURDOCH

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

I suspect that if you somehow got a superpower you would use it for evil instead of good

what are you on about richard youve lost me. when I terminate a socet I put the cables in the relevant holes. I then get a bit of cpc from some 2.5 screw it to the earth teminal on the back box sleeve it and then pop it in the earth terminal on the socket.

I know thats right so not sure what you going on about if im honest



ps I hope to get accepted onto the training forums to, when I do Ill be learning alot hopefully and will be quick to jump on anyone who p[osts something wrongly. ESPECIALLY MURDOCH

 

[Octopus]

what are you on about richard youve lost me. when I terminate a socet I put the cables in the relevant holes. I then get a bit of cpc from some 2.5 screw it to the earth teminal on the back box sleeve it and then pop it in the earth terminal on the socket.

I know thats right so not sure what you going on about if im honest



ps I hope to get accepted onto the training forums to, when I do Ill be learning alot hopefully and will be quick to jump on anyone who p[osts something wrongly. ESPECIALLY MURDOCH

Puzzled?? unless of course you are lofty84 or what ever it was??

 

[Richard]

what are you on about richard youve lost me. when I terminate a socet I put the cables in the relevant holes. I then get a bit of cpc from some 2.5 screw it to the earth teminal on the back box sleeve it and then pop it in the earth terminal on the socket.

I know thats right so not sure what you going on about if im honest

Appologies, I read your post a few times and was convinced that you were taking the earths to the back box, and then a tail to the socket face! serves me right for posting after a few speckled chickens! My bad.

 

[lofts]

No worries mate 9/10 im ussually wrong anyway. cheers rich