Will this work?

[Welsh]

Dear all,

This is my first thread on this forum, so please be bear with me!

I've found my self in a situation where I'm having work done on my house and the electrician on the team has pretty much decreed, you buy everything and I'll fit it. Basically, I need to make sure what I'm purchasing is correct so I don't squander my budget, unfortunately, he has been pretty unhelpful when I've asked questions.

I'm fitting a set of downlights in my lounge/diner with dimmable Megaman LEDs.

Frankly, despite spending hours on the internet I'm still not really sure what is/is-not possible, what the difference between a 'Master' and a 'Slave' dimmer is etc. I would really appreciate if someone could look at the diagram I've put together and tell me whether what I want to do is possible, with the remote trailing-edge dimmer/slave combination I'm looking to purchase below:

Master:
Eclique 3 Gang, 1 or 2 Way or Multi-way 3x400 Watt Touch/Remote Dimmer Screwless Premium White JDQI403S
Slave:
Eclique 3 Gang, Multi-way Touch Slave Dimmer Screwless Premium White JDQS003S

View attachment Lounge Lighting Diagram Pg 3.pdf

Please excuse the crude diagram!

 

[trev]

Can I ask why, considering you have an electrician engaged, you're asking on an internet forum and not contacting the guy who's opinion really matters? I.E. Your electrician

 

[telectrix]

basically a simple idea. if you want 2 way dimmers, you use 1 master and 1 slave dimmer. wire according to manufacturers instructions.

 

[trev]

If he is that unhelpful I'd seriously consider whether I've made the right choice

 

[plugsandsparks]

Agreed, i much prefer to supply, that way i know it will work.

Order i would do it:
Choose LED lighting,
Use manufacturers recommended dimmers for said LEDs
Fit said dimmers according to instructions

 

[Welsh]

Because, and I know this sounds bad, he doesn't seem to really know much about LED lights. The problem is he is a friend of the family, so it's difficult. Some of the things I have asked he ie. what suitable LED bulbs should I buy he has replied with things like - 'any, they're all much of a muchness'. Which, after just a few quick searches, is plainly not true. There are all sorts of other things I could list which have really dented my confidence, however, I'm in a rubbish situation, that I can't really get out of and that's why I've turned to this forum for help.

I'm sure he knows the basics, but I can't help but feel I have to put the leg-work in here in order to get a decent job done. Many thanks again.

 

[i=p/u]

Just you fit your own dimmer , you've done all donkey work..

 

[bigbaddave]

I like that "I'm sure he knows the basics"

 

[telectrix]

family friend or not, if you have not got confidence in him, then get someone else. there's a few forum members in s.wales, i'm sure would do better.

 

[trev]

Welsh I believe the best advice here is to get yourself another spark, any electrician worth their salt knows that LEDs are not all "much of a muchness" there are varying degrees of quality.
To me it doesn't matter a jot that he's a family friend, if he's giving crap advice then it's crap advice. I see my role as often to help the customer make the correct decision that their budget will allow and to advise and guide them through all stages of the job. If he can't be bothered to do that, which isn't difficult if we're being fair, then how can you be confident he'll be bothered to do a decent, safe job.

 

[i=p/u]

Sure i installed recommended LEDs from wholesales and had few phone calls recently they starting to blow, thy replace them but still hassle .. And you soon here it when someone as spent 200 on LEDs alone for kitchen lighting and you telling them they should last 10 years.. The wholesalers recommended dimming LEDs are now£15 each

 

[telectrix]

what was this family friend/"spark" before the 5 week course, a shelf stacker in tesco? ( no disrespect meant to shelf stackers or tesco,just stick to what you know)

 

[Welsh]

Thanks guys, but I'd really appreciate if you could look at the diagram and see if it could possibly work as it's quite difficult to explain what I'm looking to do as I am absolutely clueless. Could I use one of the gangs to switch on all of the lights in the loung area, and the other two just to switch off/on the other two sections of the lounge? Is it possible to have the slave dimmer control two completely seperate lights in the dining area, as well as the lights on gang 3 in the lounge?

Sorry, I just need to know if what I'm proposing can work with a Master/Slave combination.

 

[Welsh]

Sorry. I'm a pretty slow typer!

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, it would cause all sorts of issue if I shun this guy, trust me, I've really thought long and hard about this... The best I can come up with is to basically lay out the steps in an 'installation-for-dummies' style fashion so he knows exactly what we're looking for. It's a very difficult situation.

 

[telectrix]

supply L and N T/E to master switch. then 3 x 3core/E from master switch to slave. from master switch run a T/E to each set of downlights. if he don't know how to connect, sack him.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Welsh I believe the best advice here is to get yourself another spark, any electrician worth their salt knows that LEDs are not all "much of a muchness" there are varying degrees of quality.
To me it doesn't matter a jot that he's a family friend, if he's giving crap advice then it's crap advice. I see my role as often to help the customer make the correct decision that their budget will allow and to advise and guide them through all stages of the job. If he can't be bothered to do that, which isn't difficult if we're being fair, then how can you be confident he'll be bothered to do a decent, safe job.

I have been trying to find comparisons between LED's on the internet but most sites just give comparisons between LED/CFL's and incandescent. Any idea where you can look to understand the varying quality od LED's as the price does seem to vary hugely so like you say there must be varying quality LED's?

 

[telectrix]

variations in wattage, beam angle, colour temperature, lumen output. for most applications i would use 5/6watt SMD, 3000K, with a lumen output of around 300lm per lamp.

 

[DPG]

And not forgetting the 'ebay specials' which are nice and cheap, but go bang after a few days! Daz

 

[Welsh]

supply L and N T/E to master switch. then 3 x 3core/E from master switch to slave. from master switch run a T/E to each set of downlights. if he don't know how to connect, sack him.

Thanks Telec, that sounds like what I need to pass on! I'm assuming what you've explained there is how to connect the lights as per the diagram? Thanks a million for this and yes, if it comes to that, I promise I will.

 

[telectrix]

the 3 cores might be overkill for the switches you are contemplating, but will be enough cores for any type of 2 way switching.

 

[Guitarist]

I have to say that, like the other guys, I am amazed that your "electrician" doesn't want to help you. I appreciate that if he's either old school (and set in his ways), or new to the trade, he may not be fully conversant with LED lighting, but come on!, it's his job to find these things out for his customers.
It sounds to me like he's just trying to pass the buck, so that if he can't get them to work, it'll be your fault for choosing the "wrong ones".

 

[trev]

Ok then Welsh, here's a few questions to ask yourself and the electrician since you seem unable to get rid of him.
Is he qualified/competent and have enough relevant experience to carry out this job?
Does he carry liability insurance in case of something going horribly wrong (Fingers crossed that it won't of course)?
Does he have access to calibrated test equipment and know how to use it and interpret the results it gives him?
Is he going to provide an Electrical Installation Certificate at the end of the job?
If he answers no to any of the above I'd say you could pedal him with a clear conscience. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire a tradesman of any description just because of some tenuous family history, especially one that seems like he can't be bothered. I know some qualified blokes in all sorts of trades who I wouldn't trust as far as I could spit others I'd stake my life on them being able to do something, it's the latter ones who get hired.

 

[Octopus]

I think its time to call a close to further input on this thread..........


Madness.

 

[gutterball]

Have a look at led hut. I've been using their lamps for a while with no problems.

 

[i=p/u]

He's defo wiring this himself...

 

[Guitarist]

He's defo wiring this himself...

Well, I hate to always be cynical, but it's amazing how many people come on here stating that their "electrician" will be carrying out work, but can't or won't help them.
I understand that sometimes we all tell customers to choose light fittings they like (but always with provisos such as IP rating), but I've never needed a customer of mine to ask on a forum how to actually carry out the wiring.

 

[Des 56]

Believe me,people in these parts are very good at having a crack at anything especially electrics
Money here in Wales is much tighter and the usual attitude is to have a go

I can't see someone disregarding safety to the point of employing a family wannabe so I think this is a have a go hero

To be fair to the man at least he is making an effort to find out the info,even if it may end with
the recessed lighting attempt ending up resembling pretty little blow lamps in the ceilings

 

[Welsh]

Look, I am not wiring this myself - I have absolutel no idea aside from what I've garnered on the internet in the past few weeks. I just want to make sure the bloke who is putting this together is going to do a decent job. I have tried to talk to him, but everything is very 'yeah, yeah no problem' and he simply won't engage with my questions. I'm sure he's fitted a ton of switch on/off lights, but frankly, it doesn't look like he's had any experience with LEDs and their nuances.

Initially I was looking at cove lighting using LED strips/drivers/transformers etc - but it got so complicated I gave up. My electrician did not have a clue, and plainly said he had never fitted that type of light - Alas, I decided it was safer to go down the downlight route.

I am having my house completely renovated - he comes part of the package as it is a team of people doing the work - I am happy with the rest of the group, just not him, it has completely stressed me out trying to understand this - even to the point where it is causing strains on my relationship. Believe me, if I was able to do this myself I really would!

 

[Welsh]

Ok then Welsh, here's a few questions to ask yourself and the electrician since you seem unable to get rid of him.
Is he qualified/competent and have enough relevant experience to carry out this job?
Does he carry liability insurance in case of something going horribly wrong (Fingers crossed that it won't of course)?
Does he have access to calibrated test equipment and know how to use it and interpret the results it gives him?
Is he going to provide an Electrical Installation Certificate at the end of the job?
If he answers no to any of the above I'd say you could pedal him with a clear conscience. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire a tradesman of any description just because of some tenuous family history, especially one that seems like he can't be bothered. I know some qualified blokes in all sorts of trades who I wouldn't trust as far as I could spit others I'd stake my life on them being able to do something, it's the latter ones who get hired.

Thanks, this is good advice - and the sort of thing I will ask. I have a meeting with the team this Thursday, so I'll put questions like this to him.

 

[UNG]

he comes part of the package as it is a team of people doing the work - I am happy with the rest of the group, just not him, it has completely stressed me out trying to understand this - even to the point where it is causing strains on my relationship. Believe me, if I was able to do this myself I really would!

Makes me wonder if he does this on all his jobs as he doesn't appear to do his bit for the TEAM and properly liase with the customer

Look, I am not wiring this myself - I have absolutel no idea aside from what I've garnered on the internet in the past few weeks. I just want to make sure the bloke who is putting this together is going to do a decent job. I have tried to talk to him, but everything is very 'yeah, yeah no problem' and he simply won't engage with my questions. I'm sure he's fitted a ton of switch on/off lights, but frankly, it doesn't look like he's had any experience with LEDs and their nuances.

Initially I was looking at cove lighting using LED strips/drivers/transformers etc - but it got so complicated I gave up. My electrician did not have a clue, and plainly said he had never fitted that type of light - Alas, I decided it was safer to go down the downlight route.

Sounds like you are not going to get the end result you want while you pander to this sparks lack of interest and ability. You need to bin him and get a spark in that you can engage with who can deliver the lighting solution you want and more to the point your other half wants, so why compromise

 

[Silly Sausage]

There is always the possibility that this Electrician does know what he's doing but just can't be bothered engaging with an electrically clueless person. I'm totally hopeless at trying to explain tech stuff to those not in know!

 

[Octopus]

There is always the possibility that this Electrician does know what he's doing but just can't be bothered engaging with an electrically clueless person. I'm totally hopeless at trying to explain tech stuff to those not in know!

So you would allow a clueless customer to buy the correct parts? I wouldn't

 

[trev]

There is always the possibility that this Electrician does know what he's doing but just can't be bothered engaging with an electrically clueless person. I'm totally hopeless at trying to explain tech stuff to those not in know!

If your customer goes glassy eyed when you try to explain something then you tailor the advice for the hard of understanding

 

[telectrix]

If your customer goes glassy eyed when you try to explain something then you tailor the advice for the hard of understanding

that's when the baseball bat comes in handy.

 

[davethsparky]

If he's a family friend and you are getting him to do the work for free or super cheap family rate then don't expect him to do anything but the bare minimum he can get away with.

If you are paying him proper rates then he should be doing what you ask him to do. 'He who pays the piper calls the tune' r From reading your posts it looks liek you have chosen what you want installed (led coving lights) but the electrician has dictated that you can't have these for whatever reason, this sounds like you are being bullied to me. If he refuses to do what you ask of him then play the consumer rights card seek advise from the CAB or trading standards.

 

[Guitarist]

YOU are the customer. Don't put up with anything you simply feel obliged to tolerate. YOUR home, YOUR rules. End of!