wiring up a new circuit board in a workshop

[richardshall]

Hi guys,

I have got a circuit breaker in my workshop and i want to use it to run lights, sockets for tools and some outdoor lighting and water feature ect.

I have already connected the end to the new circuit board in the shed and run the armoured cable underground to the circuit board in the house but i am unsure where to connect it. Can it be connected directly to the red main switch the same as the existing board or can it be connected to a circuit breaker on the panel. I was advised to connect it to a 50amp breaker but i have been having problems with it so i disconnected it.

Any advise very much appreciated.

Thanks

Rich

 

[telectrix]

so many factors to consider. size of SWA cable. earthing system, shed construction. not to mention notification under part p. only advice i can give is to call in a registered spark.

 

[richardshall]

Hi thanks for the reply. the cable running from the house to the shed is armoured and is approx 10 -15 mm thick all together.The shed construction is out of shiplap and a timber base. Im not sure about the earthing system or the notification under part p that you mentioned.
I would prefer to do it myself as i am self employed and dont have much time to wait in for people, plus theres the cost.

Any info again would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 19807]

well the cost could be £5000 for not notifying building control

 

[stuart569]

Hi thanks for the reply. the cable running from the house to the shed is armoured and is approx 10 -15 mm thick all together.The shed construction is out of shiplap and a timber base. Im not sure about the earthing system or the notification under part p that you mentioned.
I would prefer to do it myself as i am self employed and dont have much time to wait in for people, plus theres the cost.

Any info again would be appreciated

Thanks

Well the simple fact is you are not compitent enough to be undertaking this work!Its downright dangerous to even attempt it.Do the right thing and employ a spark!

 

[telectrix]

to be honest, mate, each to his own. weigh up the cost of a professional spark against the costs of 1. notifying building control ( about £200 - £300 ) to comply with the law. 2. the possibility of your house burning down.3 . the possibility of you or your family being injured or killed. it's a no brainer mate.

 

[richardshall]

i wasnt aware that you had to notify anyone just to have electrics into a shed. I fully understand about laws as i am a business owner myself and yes it is a no brainer and i would never put my family in that situation.

 

[ganz]

Please do not connect that cable to a 50 amp breaker, 10 -15mm diameter does not sound at all like it can handle 50 amps. Call a qualified electrician.

 

[richardshall]

that advice did come from a qualified electrician lmao, what a joke with all due respect theres someone on here saying im not compitent enough and people saying to call an electrician and i was told to wire it up to a 50 amp breaker by a qualified sparky ffs doesnt gine you much faith tbh.

 

[ganz]

wat was the problems you were having with it, to disconnect it??

 

[telectrix]

richard, google part p. you can download the part p doc. this tells you that certain electrical works must be notified to your LABC ( local authority building control). amongst the works that must be notified is any electrical work outside and/ or involving new circuits. if you were to do the work yourself, you would need to notify beforehand. then they charge you a goodly sum to check/inspect/test. if it's wrong, they will make you rip it out and start again. you are then around £2-300 out of pocket with nothing to show for it.

by employing a registered spark you are then.1. getting the job done correctly and safely. 2. all the notification to comply with the law is taken care of.

 

[richardshall]

Hi Ganz thanks for the reply ....it was working fine at first, i had the lights connected as well as a single socket wired temporarily. I connected an extension lead to the socket to run a grinder and something tripped and now part of the board works and the other part dont. i reconnected a new socket as i thought it had blown the socket and tested it by switching the breaker onto the on position and it set the electric smoke alarms off in the house (i honestly dont know why and i admit that). i havnt used it since.

 

[richardshall]

so you have to pay just to have electrics in a shed. I know loads off people with outdoor electrics and electrics in sheds who havnt had to go through all that, How come ???

 

[leespeed]

just go on your local council website and look up building control the info is there m8
it will clearly explain for you to get a proffesional

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Nobody on here can give you the correct advise other than get a electrician in.

We would need to know every aspect of your installation including lengths and cable CSA's in order to give you any other sound advise.

If you have a wife and kids, please do not do any more and take the advise you have been given and get someone in.

 

[Rockingit]

Hi Richard. What you are experiencing is fairly common - the whole process of sort of knowing that if you make a circle then you make the light work. Part P (which to give it it's full title is Part P to the Building Regulations) was introduced by the government a few years ago - 2006 if memory serves. It's designed to allow home owners the flexibility to do certain DIY electrical tasks if they feel able but puts a greater responsibility on the more critical aspects like whole new connections and circuits, new fuse boards and so on.

What you've described here is that you don't quite fully know what you are up to, but some mate in a pub has made some suggestions. Thinking of your 'circle', what 'starts' in the shed also 'starts' in your house. I've a mate who does Elvis impressions, I don't for one moment think that he is!

Please, I've been a sparky for a long time, and I've seen the mishaps of DIY time and time again. By the sounds of it, you've got the basics of the materials, you just need a little know-how. Buy it in the form of a Part P registered sparks.

 

[leespeed]

as elvis says ......thankyou verrrrrrrrry much huhaw

 

[richardshall]

What you've described here is that you don't quite fully know what you are up to, but some mate in a pub has made some suggestions. Thinking of your 'circle', what 'starts' in the shed also 'starts' in your house. I've a mate who does Elvis impressions, I don't for one moment think that he is
.

That sounds very patronising to be honest. i am compitent but i just needed a couple of small pointers. I didnt know about the part p so thats fair enough. to everyone that has said about my family i would say that goes without saying, i would never put my family i danger so i dont need people telling me not to on a forum. All i asked for was a small amount of advise and a few people on here started to get funny. I dont see what the need for it was tbh.

 

[richardshall]

That sounds very patronising to be honest. i am compitent but i just needed a couple of small pointers. I didnt know about the part p so thats fair enough. to everyone that has said about my family i would say that goes without saying, i would never put my family i danger so i dont need people telling me not to on a forum. All i asked for was a small amount of advise and a few people on here started to get funny. I dont see what the need for it was tbh.

and please read back because i did state that it was not someone in a pub it was a QUALIFIED sparky

 

[Peter Stanley]

can you tell why u are having problems with the 50A MCB
with what u have told me the total load in the shed will not exceed 32A the cable u use between the shed and source must be rated at greater size of 32A
The protective device at source should be a an RCBO device
the shed earthing could be either TNC-S or TT

 

[unit-electric]

Richard, it sounds like the diameter of the cable is too small for 50 amps. I would advise to find out the correct Cross sectional area of the cable before you connect to anything. If the person who gave you the advise is a sparky, he should be able to help you.

And the others are right, you will have to get the work tested and verified by a qualified electrician, and then registered to the council under part P laws

 

[telectrix]

so you have to pay just to have electrics in a shed. I know loads off people with outdoor electrics and electrics in sheds who havnt had to go through all that, How come ???

basically, if they have done the work after part p was introduced in 2006, they have broken the law. it's similar to gas safe, used to be corgi, for gas. only registered gas safe personnel can do work on gas. everybody and his dog knows this. the part p regarding electrics is not so well known.

 

[rugbynick]

As the others have already told you-use a part P registered Electrician. Part P has been law for over 5 years. Check online with Elecsa or Niceic

 

[richardshall]

ok thanks, ill get it all checked anyway

 

[Rockingit]

Richard, look, sorry if offence was taken because none was meant. But the mere fact that you are asking about Part P, admitting that 'things have tripped' and setting off smoke alarms etc etc just tells us all that sadly you are NOT competent. And a 'qualified electrician' should have known better than dishing out advice about changing circuit protective devices, grades of cable and god knows what else without 1) also knowing that it would be subject to part p (assumes you're not in Scotland) and 2) that it will need testing and certifying regardless and 3) that you may not be up to do it.

Did he ask you what your Ze is at origin, length of cable required, loading calculations (with diversity applied if applicable) for voltage drop, installation method to account for thermal degradation, earthing method, equipotential bonding arrangements and means of protection before telling you to 'bung a 50A breaker on it' in order to gain a correct value of Zs to meet satisfactory disconnection times in accordance with BS7671??

Hmmm.....let me guess........

 

[richardshall]

No need to reply im sure you can guess

 

[malcolmsanford]

And if he was in Scotland .............................


Sorry lads couldn't resist

 

[Octopus]

Doesn't want to pay to have it done properly and now wants advice for free.

Sorry mate but most of the sparkies here, study, pass exams, pay their registration, pay for insurance, buy expensive testers ..... to ensure that installations are safe, meet the requriements of BS7671 and meet (where relevent) Part P requirements.

Post you location and maybe you'll get some proper hands on advice in exchange for some money.

 

[martin fuller]

hi interesting thread,
firstly what do you need 50A for in your shed for ?, then on the design side, length of cable, installation method, intended load max, etc etc, its all in 2391, basically one way would be to terminate the SWA ( 2.5 mm ) in a free standing 30 mA RCD enclosure,, gland it ( suitable IP rated) and put a 2.5 mm flex and 13 A plug on the end of it, then its just an extension lead !!

 

[Amp David]

And why the heck are you trying to wire up a circuit board to a length of SWA?

 

[High Tower]

Your grinder tripped the rcd in the house hence no power on half the board probably due to discrimination, the sooner you realise you are out of ur depth the better!!!

 

[Inteificio]

Richard this is more complicated than you probably expected.
Just get a real sparky to look at it,

 

[richardshall]

Your grinder tripped the rcd in the house hence no power on half the board probably due to discrimination, the sooner you realise you are out of ur depth the better!!!

No it didnt trip the rcd in the house that is still working fine as i have mentioned numerous times in my previous posts. I think i get the general idea now, just get a sparky in to do it. I really wisj people would read all the facts that i have given though before they comment then it might be more helpfull.!!!

 

[kenny james]

as you have now gathered richard their is quite alot of arrogant and close nit sparks on here who dont want to give advice even though i mention it numerous times that this is a forum site to gain information, i can see the point of what they are trying to say but i can also see the point more of those wanting to ask questions about electrical matters, they work on the principle if you need to ask you should not do the job yourself (in a kinder way of saying it)

 

[richardshall]

yeah kenny i kind of gathered. like i have said before on here i am a trader and yes they have passed exams and bought expensive gadgets. then again so have i, i have been though numerous exams and got expensive tools as well BUT if someone asked me a genuine question i would give them the advice for free, guess that shows who is the better person. I didnt want to get like this but the arrogant ones on here are really ****ing me off, so if you havnt got anything constructive to say then go and stick your fingers in a plus socket and flick it on :-D .... if any admins see this thread can you please delete it as it is of no use to me and it has just basically turned into a playground slanging match. Your all easy to shout up and judge over a computer aint ya. Dont judge people if you dont know them.

 

[kenny james]

i once worked with a spark who would talk it through with the other lads and myself on how he was going to do the job from picking the right size screwdriver right through to each stage of the job, it took him longer to explain what and how he was going to do the job than actually doing it and it was irritating and it was true that what he said was right but us other lads didnt want to hear it again, the moral of my true story is that is what alot of the old timers on here want to read people who dont have questions and know everything which in a sense is boring to read what you already know, maybe one day they will realise this when everybody just threads info that everybody knows because people are afraid to ask a question incase they get verbally abused and go to another forum site with more pleasant sparks who are willing to give there positive opinions and advice.

 

[richardshall]

yeah fair enough u have all passed exams and bought all the gadgets. I have passed exams in my trade and bought all the tools. If someone asked me for advice and was genuine then i would give it them for free. guess that shows who is the better person. i have contacted a spearky as i mentioned god knows how many times on here and that was the advice he gave me. FFS dont people read these forums before the comment or was u just itching to have your say ...!!!

 

[richardshall]

i once worked with a spark who would talk it through with the other lads and myself on how he was going to do the job from picking the right size screwdriver right through to each stage of the job, it took him longer to explain what and how he was going to do the job than actually doing it and it was irritating and it was true that what he said was right but us other lads didnt want to hear it again, the moral of my true story is that is what alot of the old timers on here want to read people who dont have questions and know everything which in a sense is boring to read what you already know, maybe one day they will realise this when everybody just threads info that everybody knows because people are afraid to ask a question incase they get verbally abused and go to another forum site with more pleasant sparks who are willing to give there positive opinions and advice.

WELL SAID MATE ... manners cost nothing, i hope you lot dont speak to your customers like that cus if you did you would be out of work. Like i said anyone can lip off over a computer, maybe u all ought to think about that one.

 

[richardshall]

dont matter now anyway i have asked admins to delete the thread and my account as it is worthless. I have wasted too much time on here. Thanks to the couple of decent ones on here who have offered constructive and pleasant advice ... much appreciated.

 

[malcolmsanford]

as you have now gathered richard their is quite alot of arrogant and close nit sparks on here who dont want to give advice even though i mention it numerous times that this is a forum site to gain information, i can see the point of what they are trying to say but i can also see the point more of those wanting to ask questions about electrical matters, they work on the principle if you need to ask you should not do the job yourself (in a kinder way of saying it)

You are quite correct there are a few "close (k)nit sparks" on here, and again yes a few of us are arrogant in the fact that we have been doing this a long time and seen most of it and done most of it.

I gather by your post Kenny your a sparks yourself so I'm amazed that you have decried the advice given to Richard.

There were a few I agree perhaps less than helpful post, mine for one, but it looks like that was born out of frustration that Richard would not quite take on board the fact that he was not competent enough to do this work. It can for some be a little, let's say disappointing, when they are confronted with a task that they are not able to carry out, especially when the task does not look that daunting to them, but in reality they are not capable of doing.

I will object to your assumption Kenny that guys/gals on here are not helpful. I have seen thread after thread of guys given their time, for free, to talk people through jobs, problems, exam questions and even life sometimes as a community.

It is as you say an open forum, where information and ideas should be exchanged, but I still believe very much in care of duty. I could not, and never will give out advice on a subject where someone is obviously out of their depth and could easily cause damage or even worse injure themselves or others. Like most on here I would advise they should seek professional guidance. after all it looks quite easy to fly a plane, I wonder how far I get on a forum if I posted I got this Lear juet and and pilot as told me this and that, how do I actually take off!

 

[Spudnik]

Richard,

The work that you wish to carry out on your home IS notfiable under Part P of the building regulations.

Alongside that, the type of work you are doing is something that requires a lot of careful consideration with regards to a safety.

The questions you raised are a little concerning. One that is particularly worrying is where to connect the cable at the house end. (Did i read, directly into the red main switch?). and a few members have recommended you to contact a local competent electrician who would be able to advise you correctly after having seen whats required.

And i respectfully ask that any member who does not wish to assist, to move on to the next thread.

 

[richardshall]

Sarcasm and patronsim again (BRAVO) words fails me !!!!!

 

[richardshall]

Richard,

The work that you wish to carry out on your home IS notfiable under Part P of the building regulations.

Alongside that, the type of work you are doing is something that requires a lot of careful consideration with regards to a safety.

The questions you raised are a little concerning. One that is particularly worrying is where to connect the cable at the house end. (Did i read, directly into the red main switch?). and a few members have recommended you to contact a local competent electrician who would be able to advise you correctly after having seen whats required.

And i respectfully ask that any member who does not wish to assist, to move on to the next thread.

Thank you Jason for your reply. I assaume that you are the admin that i contaatced ???. if so i would appreciate it if you could kindly delete this thread as i asked previously if that is possible as i do not want anymore notification from it. I must say that i am disappointed with the response from several members. The approach that alot of you had was very arrogant and uncalled for. A simple nudge in the right direction was all that was needed> After the advice that i recieved from a electrician to wire it up how i did can you not see why i have given up and asked people on here who i assumed would help. Guess its too much to ask these days. Thank you once again to the minority that have offered constructive advice and in the correct way. Please delete thread. Many thanks Richard

 

[wade88]

I think the nudge in the right direction was pretty apparent after about 3 posts, when you were told to contact a qualified electrician.

 

[richardshall]

I think the nudge in the right direction was pretty apparent after about 3 posts, when you were told to contact a qualified electrician.

That is fair enough but as i have said there was no need for the hostility and attitude that came with that nudge in the right direction in my opinion. Also do you think i trust many electricians at the moment after i was told to wire the consumer unit up as i mentioned by a qualified electrician. I dont think so !!!

 

[telectrix]

if you were told wrong in the first place then i would question whether the electrician who told you the wrong advice is qualified . surely not from the same regs. as i've got. i think any hostility you seem to have had from forum members stems from the fact that you don't seem to have heeded the good advice given in the first 2 or 3 posts. i'm sure that if i went on the law society's forum and suggested i defended myself on a manslaughter charge, i'd get some pretty short sharp replies.