Working in a school

[uksparks]

Hi,

ive managed to secure one work for a school, nothing big, just a number of accessory changes etc and a couple of additional sockets.

ill be up front, I've never done any work in a school.

is there anything I should know about? Work will be done out of school hours.

my main query i suppose is that they want a couple of additional sockets, that's fine, but will need to totally power down the related board as to be able to test it properly, does anyone have any pointers as to bed method or what to suggest to them?

ive not yet investigated as to where the circuit is fed from, but just looking for any advise really on the whole school thing.

thanks

 

[Hellmooth]

Did you not learn this at school.........?

Ill get my coat !

 

[Guest77]

Hi,

ive managed to secure one work for a school, nothing big, just a number of accessory changes etc and a couple of additional sockets.

ill be up front, I've never done any work in a school.

is there anything I should know about? Work will be done out of school hours.

my main query i suppose is that they want a couple of additional sockets, that's fine, but will need to totally power down the related board as to be able to test it properly, does anyone have any pointers as to bed method or what to suggest to them?

ive not yet investigated as to where the circuit is fed from, but just looking for any advise really on the whole school thing.

thanks

You will need all risks insurance to keep the county council happy to start, that is usually 2-3k, when you quote for work ask the school before submitting the costs whether you need to allow for out of hours work, school boy stuff Really.

 

[Marvo]

Sounds like a classy job to me

Think I'll get my coat as well....

**edit** Your like was for that schoolboy stuff comment MDJ

 

[Octopus]

Hi,

ive managed to secure one work for a school, nothing big, just a number of accessory changes etc and a couple of additional sockets.

ill be up front, I've never done any work in a school.

is there anything I should know about? Work will be done out of school hours.

my main query i suppose is that they want a couple of additional sockets, that's fine, but will need to totally power down the related board as to be able to test it properly, does anyone have any pointers as to bed method or what to suggest to them?

ive not yet investigated as to where the circuit is fed from, but just looking for any advise really on the whole school thing.

thanks

Best not say that when you are on the school premises! :21:

 

[ian.settle1]

Don't forget you will also need to do an enhanced CRB check working in a school

 

[Guest77]

Don't forget you will also need to do an enhanced CRB check working in a school

A very good and valid point fella, very true.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Ive just done an eicr on a school, out of hours for obvious reasons and replaced a load of light fittings. In my tender had copies of generic risk assessment, method statement, PL and PI insurance certificates, NIC registration certificate, ECA registration certificate, etc

 

[Leesparkykent]

you wont need the enhanced DBS check if working out of hours.

 

[Andy78]

Don't forget you will also need to do an enhanced CRB check working in a school

Unless the local authority don't ask for one. I worked for years on schools with no checks. One day they decided they had been remiss in their duties and we all had to get them.
You can get an ECS photo card that proves your enhanced CRB status which is what I ended up with.

 

[uksparks]

You will need all risks insurance to keep the county council happy to start, that is usually 2-3k, when you quote for work ask the school before submitting the costs whether you need to allow for out of hours work, school boy stuff Really.

What is all risks insurance? I've got PL at £5m and PI, I'm only swapping a few fittings and adding two additional sockets so not going to splash out on any other insurance, it's only worth £100 anyway.

ive not got a CRB, the have not asked and I've not said.. I should perhaps look at getting one, but as its out of hours I can't see the need.

 

[Risteard]

Don't forget you will also need to do an enhanced CRB check working in a school

Not if you're working outside school hours. I have worked in nearly 20 schools (including during school hours) and have never been asked for any sort of CRB for school work, let alone enhanced.

 

[Risteard]

Also the education board is likely to require all steel containment, i.e. trunking and conduit with BS6491b singles.

 

[davesparks]

Maintainence jobs in schools are great fun, sorting through years of bodgery perpetrated by the 'approved contractors' and layered on top of a 1960's steel conduit install. And all in that magic hour between the caretaker unlocking the door and the first child arriving.

 

[Lagentium]

And the Clerk of Works is usually a massive pain in the backside!

 

[ian.settle1]

Also the education board is likely to require all steel containment, i.e. trunking and conduit with BS6491b singles.

Like most buildings built to government specs the conduit will be buried in concrete including the conduits in the ceilings

 

[slingshot2000]

And "insist" on seeing the schools Asbestos Report before starting anything !

 

[sparkdog]

Don't forget your dinner money.

 

[hightower]

I work in a school currently. You shouldn't be asked for crb, and as a school it's up to us who we use for installs. For sockets etc we use a local well priced company, for bigger jobs (like db issues) we usually get the council team in. We've had a full IT suite of power installed by a local company without issue (ie council pencil pushers on our case). As for install methods, that again is our perogative. The older installs are steel conduit but recently we've opted for plastic trunking in a bid to make the job cheaper.

 

[Risteard]

Like most buildings built to government specs the conduit will be buried in concrete including the conduits in the ceilings

Sometimes, although surface conduit isn't uncommon in schools here.

 

[Risteard]

I work in a school currently. You shouldn't be asked for crb, and as a school it's up to us who we use for installs.

It must be different there then, because here the contract is with the relevant Education & Library Board.

 

[hightower]

Schools (well, councils too) are places that seek 'best value' - everything we order (over a certain value) has to be subject to procurement procedures, such as getting 3 similar quotes from different suppliers. The council try and restrict us to using their services (and therefore lining their own pockets) but my argument is they can't tell us when we need 3 quotes (for services they don't provide) and when we don't (for services they do provide). We either seek best value every time, or none of the time as far as I'm concerned.

Now, of course best value doesn't necessarily mean best price - if we hire a cowboy for next to nothing, and then have to pay the council to come and fix his mess, that's obviously not value. But when the council charges far more than another supplier/contractor that too isn't best value. We're distancing ourselves (as are many other schools I'm in contact with) from council services as much as possible. To give an example, a few years ago we were being charged £450 for a certain spec computer, but we found if we went direct to the supplier we could get them for around £320 for the exact same make and spec (and the same supplier the council used) - so £130 extra for using the council as what is essentially a middle man, I don't call that value. (And don't even get me started on the quality of some of the work they provide)

I've heard all sorts of stories about under-the-table-handshakes going on at the council, and I could well believe most of them having experienced things first hand. My interests lie with getting the best for my school, governors, staff, and students, and council provided services on the whole doesn't align with that.

EDIT: Back to the OPs original question, the only thing I would say is involve the technical guy on site if there is one. I'm IT but if you came in and saw me here I could probably tell you where you need to look to isolate a particular circuit, possibly saving you a bit investigative work. On top of that, I'd be a bit peeved if someone came in and started flicking circuits that happened to include my servers and other sensitive hardware without my say-so. A quick "I need to isolate this circuit, is that ok?" could save a lot of heartache for an IT guy, and a lot of abuse aimed your way.

 

[Guest77]

Not if you're working outside school hours. I have worked in nearly 20 schools (including during school hours) and have never been asked for any sort of CRB for school work, let alone enhanced.

Depends on the council fella, I get what your saying, in Gloucestershire county council though all contractors who work on premises like schools etc where public money is used need to be CRB checked, that said if the school is paying for it and using their money maybe not, so a bit unclear I suppose.

 

[Guest77]

Schools (well, councils too) are places that seek 'best value' - everything we order (over a certain value) has to be subject to procurement procedures, such as getting 3 similar quotes from different suppliers. The council try and restrict us to using their services (and therefore lining their own pockets) but my argument is they can't tell us when we need 3 quotes (for services they don't provide) and when we don't (for services they do provide). We either seek best value every time, or none of the time as far as I'm concerned.

Now, of course best value doesn't necessarily mean best price - if we hire a cowboy for next to nothing, and then have to pay the council to come and fix his mess, that's obviously not value. But when the council charges far more than another supplier/contractor that too isn't best value. We're distancing ourselves (as are many other schools I'm in contact with) from council services as much as possible. To give an example, a few years ago we were being charged £450 for a certain spec computer, but we found if we went direct to the supplier we could get them for around £320 for the exact same make and spec (and the same supplier the council used) - so £130 extra for using the council as what is essentially a middle man, I don't call that value. (And don't even get me started on the quality of some of the work they provide)

I've heard all sorts of stories about under-the-table-handshakes going on at the council, and I could well believe most of them having experienced things first hand. My interests lie with getting the best for my school, governors, staff, and students, and council provided services on the whole doesn't align with that.

EDIT: Back to the OPs original question, the only thing I would say is involve the technical guy on site if there is one. I'm IT but if you came in and saw me here I could probably tell you where you need to look to isolate a particular circuit, possibly saving you a bit investigative work. On top of that, I'd be a bit peeved if someone came in and started flicking circuits that happened to include my servers and other sensitive hardware without my say-so. A quick "I need to isolate this circuit, is that ok?" could save a lot of heartache for an IT guy, and a lot of abuse aimed your way.

A bit of advice for you, be careful what you write, you could end up in court with comments like that.

 

[hightower]

Mdj this is probably a council stipulation rather than a school, just to cover themselves. Anyone can enter a school without a crb provided they are supervised at all times.

 

[Guest77]

Mdj this is probably a council stipulation rather than a school, just to cover themselves. Anyone can enter a school without a crb provided they are supervised at all times.

Fair enough, I see your point regarding supervision.

 

[hightower]

A bit of advice for you, be careful what you write, you could end up in court with comments like that.

I haven't said anything wrong, only that I've heard stories which is truth. I haven't mentioned any stories directly, and I haven't said that any of these stories ate factual only that I could believe them which is nothing more than a statement of opinion

 

[Guest77]

I haven't said anything wrong, only that I've heard stories which is truth. I haven't mentioned any stories directly, and I haven't said that any of these stories ate factual only that I could believe them which is nothing more than a statement of opinion

You don't need to explain yourself to me, just the local county council Barrister thats all if your ever prosecuted lol.

 

[hightower]

Point taken, can't edit post, can mod help?

 

[Aurai]

CRB Checks

Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks are now called Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks.

Are not quite like a badge or certificate that you can arrange for yourself. The School can ask for CRB checked staff only, but the school would have to organise the check. It is a subject area for specialists, up to a point, but if you are not left alone with children, do not have regular access to the same children you would usually not need to be checked.

That does not mean you cannot use common sense, do not work anywhere near children without a teacher present and so on.

Cheers

 

[Dave OCD]

I haven't said anything wrong, only that I've heard stories which is truth. I haven't mentioned any stories directly, and I haven't said that any of these stories ate factual only that I could believe them which is nothing more than a statement of opinion

Well I worked for a Council for a long time and can certainly confirm that 'handshakes' can have a profound effect on an individuals career progression and therefore pay - regardless of how good, or more commonly useless the person is.
Needless to say I remained close to the bottom of the 'food chain' as my wonderful boss used to like saying. :leaving::smiley2:

 

[not clever]

Schools (well, councils too) are places that seek 'best value' - everything we order (over a certain value) has to be subject to procurement procedures

Hightower is spot on & other local government authorities also have to do this, hence the "framework system" where authorities were forced to use approved companies (think large facilities type comps & contractors) to do work has been side lined because of "best practice & procurement", now authorities have the freedom to use local trades at a fraction of the cost or indeed use in house qualified persons.

So instead of paying £1527 for a ring main extension in a small office to include 4x double sockets in dado, it was done in house for £300ish