Offer: day's paid work for tutor/mentor/electrician (house bashing)

[happysteve]

Eh up

I need a new circuit installed in my house (cooker - it's on a RFC at the moment, naughty naughty), now is a good time to do it as we're going to put new laminate flooring down at some point soon, so we can make a mess of the current floors as long as we can leave it safe. I would also like to put in some new bonding whilst we're at it - there is existing bonding to the water inlet in the kitchen (all good), however we have an additional main inlet into the utility room at the back (yes, two independent main water inlets) which, although not extraneous, I would like to bond as a belt and braces approach.

This is not work I should be doing myself (the new circuit, at least), unless under supervision. It is notifiable work (new circuit) too.

Anyone qualified fancy being a house basher for a day? I will pay reasonable day rates, the only other stipulations are (a) you agree to let me help, so I can learn stuff, and (b) you agree to notify the work to BC. This could either be through a CPS, or, if you are confident your experience and qualifications will be accepted by the BC, then directly through them. You will, of course, be insured.

I'm in Beeston, near Nottingham.

I can post pictures/take measurements of the lay of the land (e.g. 16th edition split Wylex board) if that will help.

Either post below, or PM me (with rates) if you're interested.

If I get no luck here in the trainee section, I will post a similar message on the main board.

Cheers for looking! Back on line this evening.

 

[Plonker 3]

Hi Steve, how important is the part P notification? As Idont mind spending the time teaching you if you like? Although im not part of a CPS.

 

[happysteve]

Hi Steve, how important is the part P notification? As Idont mind spending the time teaching you if you like? Although im not part of a CPS.

That's very good of you to offer, Dillb, thanks.

Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's whether someone is part of a CPS or not, quite frankly. But I want the job notifying. I don't know what our local building control office is like - some accept evidence of suitable qualifications and experience and will accept directly notified jobs (rather than through a CPS). Anyone got an local knowledge on this?

If I have to pay someone a day rate, materials, AND then pay BC £300(?) to do an independent inspection, then it's not very economical.

 

[Plonker 3]

Your welcome, I have no idea what LABC are like, which one do you come under in Beeston?

 

[Bobster]

If the second water main isn't extraneous you shouldn't be bonding it. Have you tested to confirm?

 

[happysteve]

If the second water main isn't extraneous you shouldn't be bonding it. Have you tested to confirm?

Of course you're correct. Oops. :redface: Having a brain f@rt. It IS extraneous. Very low resistance.

 

[Bobster]

It's Friday, I'll let you off haha

 

[happysteve]

Your welcome, I have no idea what LABC are like, which one do you come under in Beeston?

Broxtowe, East Midlands: Find your local council building control department | LABC

 

[Paul.M]

Steve I would be up for it mate but Dillb is a better choice due to you both being local.

As per LABC notification, dont worry about it. I'll post Steve the blank certs, Dillb carries out the test and fills them in, it will be notified free of charge for you.

Good luck gents and have fun.

 

[happysteve]

Now, I do like the sound of that, yes I do. :yes: unk::rockon2: Cheers ears.

 

[Paul.M]

Now, I do like the sound of that, yes I do. :yes: unk::rockon2: Cheers ears.

Steve you are a great bloke that I have met a few times, any help that you need just ask.

Dillb is a great Electrician and I will be more than happy to notify any cert he forwards me due to his brilliant electrical knowledge. ps I dont like the scams and the LABC system. It should just be as simple of proving your quals to them and passing them a cert to file because that is all they do at the end of the day.

 

[pennychew]

If its in your own house and you have a qualified spark supervising then i wouldn't bother with the certs mate

 

[Paul.M]

If its in your own house and you have a qualified spark supervising then i wouldn't bother with the certs mate

I hate the scams and the money it takes from all of us to be a part of them, but they are here to stay until something dramatic happens like what D Skelton tried to do/be a main player of. He put a lot of time and effort into trying to make our industry better for customers and electricians alike.

This is in the T/S so I wont have a personal rant, but I really dont like the scams and I have had a couple of face to face chats with Tony Cable about the matter.

 

[Simonslimline]

If i am to be completely honest, if it was my house then i would just crack on with it.

Why part with hard earned money for someone to confirm what you have already confirmed is compliant and safe!

Each to their own though i guess.

Hope it goes well mate.

 

[happysteve]

Agree with all the above Hence me stressing that CPS membership was not required. On the other hand, I do want to do things "by the book" as far as LABC is concerned. Start as you mean to go on, eh?

I've sent Dillb a message, including my cable calcs, which I may as well post here as well so you can all pick holes in it

Calcs:

TN-C-S, measured Ze = 0.10 ohms.

4.1kW double oven (hobs are separate, gas).

No diversity (oven only, not a cooker), so Ib=17.83A.
In>=Ib = 20A, BS EN 60898 type B MCB (RCD protected)
No rating factors
It>=Ib (fixed load), but let's provide overload protection too so It>=In

Reference method C: buried in plaster from CU to beneath boards (no insulation), then under boards, through brick wall into kitchen, then clipped direct to existing 20A switch in kitchen unit.

H05V2V2-F (2.5mm, 3 core) flex from switch to oven.

Estimate cable run CU to existing switch ~ 10-11m, allow 12m.

From table 4D5 (p364, BYB):

CCC: 1.5mm = 20A; 2.5mm = 27A; 4mm = 37A.
VD: 1.5mm = 29; 2.5mm = 18; 4mm = 11 (all mV/A/m).

So 1.5mm would in theory be fine for both CCC and VD (=6.2V, assuming 12m). Blimey!

2.5mm will definitely be fine for this oven.

Going to suggest putting 4mm in. Totally over the top for this oven, but allows us (or more likely next owners of house) to put in full electric cooker if they need be (upgrade OCPD to 32A). But will defer to Dillb's advice if he thinks this is silly.

Expected R1+R2 (from OSG table I1 and using 1.2 factor from I3 for operating temperature), assuming 12m run:

1.5+1.0mm: 12x30.2x1.2 = 0.44 ohms
2.5+1.5mm: 12x19.51x1.2 = 0.28 ohms
4.0+1.5mm: 12x16.71x1.2 = 0.24 ohms

Zs (above values + Ze of 0.1 ohms) all within maximum Zs of 2.19 ohms (table 41.3, BYB).

R1+R2 of flex not taken into account of above, but even if it was, would still be fine.

CU is Wylex 16th edition board (split board, half protected by 30mA RCD). Spare ways in RCD-protected half (even got 20A MCB unused in there).

 

[Simonslimline]

Agree with all the above Hence me stressing that CPS membership was not required. On the other hand, I do want to do things "by the book" as far as LABC is concerned. Start as you mean to go on, eh?

I've sent Dillb a message, including my cable calcs, which I may as well post here as well so you can all pick holes in it

Calcs:

TN-C-S, measured Ze = 0.10 ohms.

4.1kW double oven (hobs are separate, gas).

No diversity (oven only, not a cooker), so Ib=17.83A.
In>=Ib = 20A, BS EN 60898 type B MCB (RCD protected)
No rating factors
It>=Ib (fixed load), but let's provide overload protection too so It>=In

Reference method C: buried in plaster from CU to beneath boards (no insulation), then under boards, through brick wall into kitchen, then clipped direct to existing 20A switch in kitchen unit.

H05V2V2-F (2.5mm, 3 core) flex from switch to oven.

Estimate cable run CU to existing switch ~ 10-11m, allow 12m.

From table 4D5 (p364, BYB):

CCC: 1.5mm = 20A; 2.5mm = 27A; 4mm = 37A.
VD: 1.5mm = 29; 2.5mm = 18; 4mm = 11 (all mV/A/m).

So 1.5mm would in theory be fine for both CCC and VD (=6.2V, assuming 12m). Blimey!

2.5mm will definitely be fine for this oven.

Going to suggest putting 4mm in. Totally over the top for this oven, but allows us (or more likely next owners of house) to put in full electric cooker if they need be (upgrade OCPD to 32A). But will defer to Dillb's advice if he thinks this is silly.

Expected R1+R2 (from OSG table I1 and using 1.2 factor from I3 for operating temperature), assuming 12m run:

1.5+1.0mm: 12x30.2x1.2 = 0.44 ohms
2.5+1.5mm: 12x19.51x1.2 = 0.28 ohms
4.0+1.5mm: 12x16.71x1.2 = 0.24 ohms

Zs (above values + Ze of 0.1 ohms) all within maximum Zs of 2.19 ohms (table 41.3, BYB).

R1+R2 of flex not taken into account of above, but even if it was, would still be fine.

CU is Wylex 16th edition board (split board, half protected by 30mA RCD). Spare ways in RCD-protected half (even got 20A MCB unused in there).

All you have top do now is run the cable terminate and test, Building who?

 

[pennychew]

I think you are right to get dillb in to give you a hand, it will be good to see how it's done correctly and bounce some ideas off him to get a 'real world' perspective, for instance most sparks I know would just stick a cooker circuit like that on 6mm t+e and use the same for the cooker outlet to the cooker rather than buy 4mm flex like it often says in the instructions, you'll learn a lot more face to face with someone experienced while carrying out the job

 

[Plonker 3]

Steve, Imhave got your PM And will reply to you later.

I Have about 12 meters of 6mm t&e in the garage if you wish to use that free of charge as it was left over from a job I did and is already paid for.

 

[happysteve]

This is just getting better and better.

 

[Paul.M]

This is just getting better and better.

Yeah this is a good thread, forum lads helping each other out in the real world yet again.

Steve dont get too excited yet, Dillb charges £300 per day + VAT

 

[happysteve]

And I'm sure he'll be worth every penny...