HELP! Down light installation??

[Oliver9]

Hello,

I am looking for some help if possible please, I am buying a new build property in the near future and the building company want payment per down light.

Instead of paying this I am looking to install the lights myself. There will be around 6-8 in the kitchen, 2 in the downstairs bathroom, 6 in the downstairs hallway, 4 in the main bathroom upstairs, 4 on the landing, and 4 in the en suite. This will total to 26-28 down lights over all so this could be a massive saving.

I have a NVQ Level 3 Diploma in Installation and Commissioning and I also have 17th Edition and I know that I need IP65 rated down lights in the wet areas as well as making sure all down lights are fire rated. I plan to wire each light in a radial circuit within each room and take the feed from the main ceiling light that is already there. I will use 1.5mm2 Twin and Earth for all lights.

Is there anything you advise that I need to also do? And in terms of a test certificate, will it be suitable to do the work myself and then get a registered electrician in to test and issue me with an Installation Certificate?

EDIT:

I have been reading various different answers on this website and I now have come to the conclusion that it would be easier to get the builder to install the down lights in the main bathroom and en-suite as these are 'special areas' and are notifiable to the building control. However, am I right in thinking if the ceiling height is more than 2.25m high, this is not notifiable?

In regards to the kitchen, downstairs bathroom (sink basin & toilet only), hallway and landing; as these are not 'special areas' can I install the down lights myself?


Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards

Ollie

 

[Octopus]

Hum ... You need your shiny me home with a completion certificate....

So you are planning to lift all the floors and / or cut loads of holes in the ceiling and all the resulting making good ....

Get it done by the builder is my advice

 

[Oliver9]

Thank you for the response.

I admit it will be easier to get the builder to do it but my logic is to save a fair amount money (around £35/£40 per down light) if possible.

I also won't have any carpets or flooring initially so there won't be any issues in lifting floor boards.

 

[telectrix]

taking the feed from an existing central light position, using wagos in a wagobox , then daisy chaining the downlights is fine. forget 1.5mm use 1.0mm. do the usual tests and complete a MWC for each circuit. as long as you are competent to do the work, then no need to get anyone else involved.

 

[telectrix]

is this a duplicate thread? i have just replied to this and it does not show on this thread!!!.

 

[Octopus]

Duplicate post alert

Tel.... I've disagreed with you ... See the other thread for my reason

 

[SparkyChick]

I also won't have any carpets or flooring initially so there won't be any issues in lifting floor boards.

Apart from it's likely to be big sheets of interlocked chipboard, lifting them is probably not an option. It's more likely you'll need to cut holes as @Murdoch said.

Personally I'd get it done by the builders... at least the ones on the ground floor. The ones on the first floor won't be too bad as you'll have access to the attic.

 

[SparkyChick]

Just moved the responses from the duplicate into here If you (@telectrix , @Murdoch ) want them tweaked at all, let me know.

 

[telectrix]

SC, you can tweak me any time you want,.

 

[SparkyChick]

SC, you can tweak me any time you want,.

With or without that leather/pvc combo from that pic???

 

[telectrix]

With or without that leather/pvc combo from that pic???

you're in charge (mod). you decide.

 

[Pete999]

top this filth, it's too much for me to take in

 

[telectrix]

top this filth, it's too much for me to take in

jealous.

 

[littlespark]

OP:- If the house isn’t finished, would the builder allow you access to run cables etc before ceiling done/ floorboards?
He can finish the house off with your cables lying dormant until completion, and signed off. then when you move in, you can cut your downlight holes and e voila, there’s your cables.

However, builder might just scupper your plans and “accidentally” cut an important cable considering he’s losing out on 40 quid a fitting.
So cynical of builders all of a sudden.

 

[telectrix]

agree. there's nowt so bad as a builder being robbed of his huge profits.

 

[robd]

Hello,

I am looking for some help if possible please, I am buying a new build property in the near future and the building company want payment per down light.

Instead of paying this I am looking to install the lights myself. There will be around 6-8 in the kitchen, 2 in the downstairs bathroom, 6 in the downstairs hallway, 4 in the main bathroom upstairs, 4 on the landing, and 4 in the en suite. This will total to 26-28 down lights over all so this could be a massive saving.

I have a NVQ Level 3 Diploma in Installation and Commissioning and I also have 17th Edition and I know that I need IP65 rated down lights in the wet areas as well as making sure all down lights are fire rated. I plan to wire each light in a radial circuit within each room and take the feed from the main ceiling light that is already there. I will use 1.5mm2 Twin and Earth for all lights.

Is there anything you advise that I need to also do? And in terms of a test certificate, will it be suitable to do the work myself and then get a registered electrician in to test and issue me with an Installation Certificate?

EDIT:

I have been reading various different answers on this website and I now have come to the conclusion that it would be easier to get the builder to install the down lights in the main bathroom and en-suite as these are 'special areas' and are notifiable to the building control. However, am I right in thinking if the ceiling height is more than 2.25m high, this is not notifiable?

In regards to the kitchen, downstairs bathroom (sink basin & toilet only), hallway and landing; as these are not 'special areas' can I install the down lights myself?


Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards

Ollie

Over 2.25 is still in the bathroom but not in the zone

 

[Midwest]

OP I moved into a new build and PAID for extra sockets, outside lights. Mine wanted to charge £50 for each down light, which I baulked at. But now I wished I had, as I've paid a shed load for some Philips Hue lights on a track, which friggin Alexa won't turn on, will you, you bitch!

The money you may save, ain't worth it, in the big scheme of things, and unless its a small builder, they ain't gonna let you or your sparks anywhere near your plot, H&S and all that.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Where abouts in Bristol are you @Oliver9 as apart from myself there are several other decent forum members in the Bristol/Bath area and would no doubt be willing to help if you come unstuck but you may find its easier to get the builder to do it,
We have mentioned on here before the perils of buying a new build property! have seen pendants literally fixed to ceiling with glue before, so dont hold out too much hope on cables being where you think they will be or having extra to reterminate easily.
Assuming you have loft access in the new build then running the upstairs lights should be quite straightforward,
Downstairs before any carpets go down get yourself one of these saws... set to the right depth you can easily cut out the floorboards if they are the tongue and groove click ones. go along the joists so it sits back on top. if you need to cut out other holes in random places get yourself one of these and the caps, price varies so shop around.

 

[Baddegg]

Good luck crawling around new build loft spaces, s£&t loads of insulation and ceiling joists like match sticks......new builds are the devils work!

 

[Baddegg]

Op,what are they charging per point for the spots then?

 

[Midwest]

We have mentioned on here before the perils of buying a new build property!

Downstairs before any carpets go down get yourself one of these saws... set to the right depth you can easily cut out the floorboards if they are the tongue and groove click ones.

Not all new builds are the same, mine been built by quality tradesperson, so get stuffed.

As for lifting glued chipboard, I'd rather go to the dentist and have all me teeth pulled; there's at least two left.

 

[Midwest]

Good luck crawling around new build loft spaces, s£&t loads of insulation and ceiling joists like match sticks......new builds are the devils work!

You as well

 

[telectrix]

new build lofts are the spawn of the devil. trusses that will just about support the roof with not enough room for a pigmy to crawl through. and that's before the 3ft. of itchy-poo goes in.

 

[littlespark]

Look at the costs of op supplying the cable and the fittings.... time taken doing the work that could be better spent in t’pub
Just get builder to do it, let him have the hassle of positioning the lights to miss the joists

 

[Octopus]

How far into the build is the house? is it plastered and 2nd fixed?

 

[Midwest]

new build lofts are the spawn of the devil. trusses that will just about support the roof with not enough room for a pigmy to crawl through. and that's before the 3ft. of itchy-poo goes in.

Well actually, I could hold a complete orchestra up in mine.

 

[Midwest]

Look at the costs of op supplying the cable and the fittings.... time taken doing the work that could be better spent in t’pub
Just get builder to do it, let him have the hassle of positioning the lights to miss the joists

I've already said that. Don't read anything

 

[littlespark]

I know, Midwest.... but clicking agree doesn't get my post count up, does it?

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Makes me chuckle when customers hear a price like £300 per room to install downlights on on a 'finished/second hand/old' building and think your trying to Rob them. "I could save loads if I did it myself" go ahead... Your life not mine. I mean really.. It's not that much and if you can't afford it, tough it's not a necessity is it.

 

[Midwest]

I know, Midwest.... but clicking agree doesn't get my post count up, does it?

Do you really care, or do we get bonus points we can spend?

 

[Taylortwocities]

I know that I need IP65 rated down lights in the wet areas as well as making sure all down lights are fire rated. I plan to wire each light in a radial circuit within each room and take the feed

Unless your house is very unusual, you do not need either of those attributes in the downlight.

 

[Oliver9]

Thank you for all the responses everyone.

I do agree that it would definitely be easier to get the building company to install the down lights however I have done research on the installation of them and it is definitely within my capabilities.

I work with electrics on a day to day basis so I am fully aware of the safety around them, I just don't have the capability to sign my own work off etc.

I know a lot of the responses have been to just pay the building company to install but all I am mainly looking for is, if I wanted to do the work myself, can I in theory? If it goes wrong, I will hire an electrician to come in and resolve it, which I think will still work out cheaper than the £65 per light quoted.

 

[Midwest]

Unless your house is very unusual, you do not need either of those attributes in the downlight.

The first perhaps not, but the later I think you'll be hard pushed when chopping holes in plasterboard, and not fire rating them, regardless of a single fire zone.

 

[davesparks]

I work with electrics on a day to day basis so I am fully aware of the safety around them, I just don't have the capability to sign my own work off etc.

If you work with electrics on a day to day basis and are competent to do this then why can’t you inspect, test and certify the work?

 

[MFS Electrical]

Thank you for the response.

I admit it will be easier to get the builder to do it but my logic is to save a fair amount money (around £35/£40 per down light) if possible.

I also won't have any carpets or flooring initially so there won't be any issues in lifting floor boards.

Good luck chances are it won’t be floorboards it will be sheets of osb or chipboard and they were probably put down before the partitions went in

 

[Oliver9]

I've emailed the sales executive to get an answer from the builder about whether it will be possible to lift the floor up. Sales Exec seems to think it is just screwed in and is a case of unscrewing them but I'd rather have a professional stance on it.

Worst case scenario, I'll saw along the edge of the joist and install new batons when re-fitting the board.

 

[Midwest]

I've emailed the sales executive to get an answer from the builder about whether it will be possible to lift the floor up. Sales Exec seems to think it is just screwed in and is a case of unscrewing them but I'd rather have a professional stance on it.

Worst case scenario, I'll saw along the edge of the joist and install new batons when re-fitting the board.

Think you'll find, they are not only screwed down, the joints are also glued and they form part of the integrity of the composite joist system, which most new builds have. I would suggest lifting a complete section almost impossible, sections or holes more appropriate, as already suggested.

As a sparks & new home owner, I would really suggest you re think your strategy, and pay for the cabling etc installed as the place is built.

 

[bailes1992]

Also a spark in a 4 year old home. I would choose cutting holes in the ceilings than taking up the chipboard floors.

Also, if I was buying a brand new house I'd pay to get everything done. Don't buy a brand new house and rip it to pieces.

 

[delano]

taking the feed from an existing central light position, using wagos in a wagobox , then daisy chaining the downlights is fine. forget 1.5mm use 1.0mm. do the usual tests and complete a MWC for each circuit. as long as you are competent to do the work, then no need to get anyone else involved.

Why forget about 1.5mm?

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Why forget about 1.5mm?

1.5mm isn't required if its protected by 6a (?). 1.0mm is good for 12a-14a