Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and 2391

[Barneyb57]

Can we get a firm answer and decision on this beacause as I read through this forum I become more and more confused,,,on all the courses I have just done which includes Part P and 2391 Inspection,Test and Certification,,,we were told that you must be registered with one of the schemes to sign off work your own or other peoples and issue a Certificate,,,,,The rules say you must be a competent Person??? So what is the real and actual take on this,,,,because I see quite a few people on here who reckon YOU DO NOT need to be registered with NICEIC, NAPIT or ECA etc, etc, to sign off work and issue a Certificate, AND IS THE 2391 A DEFINATE MUST HAVE???
Can we have an Official ANSWER on this.........Thank you............Signed Confused.com

​

 

[Plonker 3]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

You only need to ask once, and the question shall be answered.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/business-related/8795-part-time-part-p.html#post545328

 

[Farmelectrics]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

is that official

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

You only need to ask once, and the question shall be answered.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/business-related/8795-part-time-part-p.html#post545328

Nah you get a better Coverage of answers by asking twice and in different places,,,,not everyone reads every thread,,I dont thats for sure....

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Can we have an Official ANSWER on this.........

Of course not.

The EAS have released an extended deadline for April next year for the new requirements to be in place, but even then there is no one body that can dictate the way the industry is going to progress.

 

[Richard Burns]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

This is my take on the "requirements"
[TABLE="width: 1018"]
[TR]
[TD]Action
[/TD]
[TD]Legal requirement
[/TD]
[TD]Some Companies / councils /insurance internal requirement
[/TD]
[TD]Self certification scheme requirement
[/TD]
[TD]C&G Qualifications that may help demonstrate competence
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Complete EIC or MEIWC
[/TD]
[TD]Competence
[/TD]
[TD]NICEIC (or other scheme maybe) membership
[/TD]
[TD]Not applicable
[/TD]
[TD]2382
2392 (2394)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Complete EICR
[/TD]
[TD]Competence
[/TD]
[TD]PIR Scheme membership (not Part P)
[/TD]
[TD]PIR membership (not part P) to use their forms. Pay fee.
[/TD]
[TD]2391 (2394/2395)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Undertake electrical work notfiiable to LABC under the building regulations
[/TD]
[TD]Competence:
Tell LABC in advance. Pay fee. LABC issue building regulations completion certificate
[/TD]
[TD]Self certification scheme membership.
[/TD]
[TD]2382 qualification 2391 also preferred. Pass assessment. Pay fee.
Scheme issues building regulations compliance certificate.
[/TD]
[TD]2382, 2392, 2391(2394,2395)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Can we get a firm answer and decision on this beacause as I read through this forum I become more and more confused,,,on all the courses I have just done which includes Part P and 2391 Inspection,Test and Certification,,,we were told that you must be registered with one of the schemes to sign off work your own or other peoples and issue a Certificate,,,,,The rules say you must be a competent Person??? So what is the real and actual take on this,,,,because I see quite a few people on here who reckon YOU DO NOT need to be registered with NICEIC, NAPIT or ECA etc, etc, to sign off work and issue a Certificate, AND IS THE 2391 A DEFINATE MUST HAVE???
Can we have an Official ANSWER on this.........Thank you............Signed Confused.com

​

Do you know what Part P is?
It is a building regulation, not a qualification of any sort.

All work you carry out, be it a minor modification or a new installation should be tested and certified with the relevant certificate.

Depending whether or not the domestic work carried out falls under the scope of Notify-able work, the local building control may or may not need to be informed.

Industrial/Commercial work does not fall under Part P unless lets say there is a flat above that shares the same consumer unit.

All of the above could be found out if you did bother to search, or read other posts thoroughly.

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

But is that a Yes or a No??

 

[Spazz]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

All notifiable work must be informed to LABC!
This can be done one of 2 ways: directly to LABC or through a scheme - Part P

You must be competent but how can you prove what competent it? - some say know what your doing - some say do a course - all correct

End of the day if you know what your doing and it is safe then your fine
If you do notifiable work you must notify LABC

Read this:
Planning Portal - Part P (Electrical Safety)

should answer all questions!

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Do you know what Part P is?
It is a building regulation, not a qualification of any sort.

All work you carry out, be it a minor modification or a new installation should be tested and certified with the relevant certificate.

Depending whether or not the domestic work carried out falls under the scope of Notify-able work, the local building control may or may not need to be informed.

Industrial/Commercial work does not fall under Part P unless lets say there is a flat above that shares the same consumer unit.

All of the above could be found out if you did bother to search, or read other posts thoroughly.

Firstly yes I do know what PART P is I am Part P Competent/Compliant call it what you will,,,If I bothered to search as you put it,or read other posts,,I'm sure I would be here all week and still not come up with AN OFFICIAL ANSWER and one that everybody understands and or abides by,,,There are from what I can see (and read on here) a vast amount of differing interpretations,and opinions, hence my question!!

 

[Des 56]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Here is the official Electricians forum answer to the ultimate question of life.the universe and everything


The official answer is




42

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Firstly yes I do know what PART P is I am Part P Competent/Compliant call it what you will,,,If I bothered to search as you put it,or read other posts,,I'm sure I would be here all week and still not come up with AN OFFICIAL ANSWER and one that everybody understands and or abides by,,,There are from what I can see (and read on here) a vast amount of differing interpretations,and opinions, hence my question!!

How are you Part P competent/compliant? Are you registered with a scheme?

How do you know that you will not find and official answer, if you are not prepared to look?

What makes you think you will get an official answer from this forum, based on your assumption that there is not one already?
Could you believe an answer given by someone on this forum "to be official" without following it up with your local council/building control department?

Why don't you phone your local council/building control department and get your official answer?

 

[Plonker 3]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Nah you get a better Coverage of answers by asking twice and in different places,,,,not everyone reads every thread,,I dont thats for sure....

I posted that link has he asked exactly the same question on there too.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

There are two types of 'signing off', and issuing Certificates.
Any electrician, should be competent enough to 'sign off' and issue a Certificate, either an EIC or MEWIC, as per the requirements of BS7671.
The Building Regulations (Part P), require that notifiable work, be signed off and a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate issued.
A Building Regulations Compliance Certificate can only be issued by Building Control, or an electrician/kitchenfitter/plumber who is registered with a Competent Persons scheme.

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

How are you Part P competent/compliant? Are you registered with a scheme?

How do you know that you will not find and official answer, if you are not prepared to look?

What makes you think you will get an official answer from this forum, based on your assumption that there is not one already?
Could you believe an answer given by someone on this forum "to be official" without following it up with your local council/building control department?

Why don't you phone your local council/building control department and get your official answer?

I think you need an attitude pill mate....However you have in part answered part of the question,,,which was in part....The rules say that you have to be competent....you replied quote...How are you Part P competent/compliant? Are you registered with a scheme?....Unquote...which is in part the reason I asked the question...Who says you/me/anyone is competent?? Any one can say they are competent,, but who decides that you are, and what proof do you/me anyone have to provide to endorse that and for it to be official??? as I interpret it that can only be done by having your work, test equipment and qualifications inspected and vetted by one of the registered Schemes,,,yes a money make I know....but a very real question I think,, and one that needs an official and decisive answer......No need for anyone to go off half cocked or to get shirty about,,,,,it's a question thats all,,,,and it's not all about Part P.
I'm talking 2391 inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations, which might not be your own work,,might be the work of others aswell....or in the case that you are employed to go and test and inspect the Electrical Installation of lets say a small or large Factory Unit or an Office Block, and issue a certificate. Simple Question do you or dont you need to be registered to do that,,,,There are some people who make a living out of Testing and Inspecting only, and dont do installations as in on the tools anymore,,,how do they stand do they have to be registered or not...simple as that...

 

[parker56]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

don't think he needs a pill,its been made very clear.

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

don't think he needs a pill,its been made very clear.

Well no it hasnt been made very clear,, thats the whole point....anyway dont bother yourselves with it,,,seems most are missing the point..

 

[Adam W]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

In what way have you deemed yourself "Part P Competent/Compliant"?

The simple answer is no, you don't need to be a scheme member, you could notify every notifiable job directly to LABC.
Or you could do it without either, although then you wouldn't be complying with part P.

That isn't an "OFFICIAL" answer, and you won't get one from an internet forum however many times you ask for one. The most you'll get is a discussion.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Nothing like a bun fight (discussion)

Approved document P relates to Building control and domestic premises. Because this is legislation you will need to follow the rules created by the Building control regulations. Approved document P is given for guidance.

You don't need any particular qualification to do PIRs/EICRs. But you need to be competent and you do need PI insurance.

Now how your insurance company assesses your competence will be up to the insurance company.

It was a lot more simple when everybody had to achieve a 5 year apprenticeship and then show evidence of working in the industry before achieving a level of recognised competence.

 

[trev]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

If you're employed by a company and a sent to carry out an I&T on anything or any kind of install you would sign the certificate as the installer or tester. The cert would then be countersigned by your company's qualified supervisor.
If self employed you would sign off certificates covering the work you carry out. If this work falls under the notifiable category for domestic work you would either be a scheme member and notify via their system or you would pay a fee to LABC who would/should carry out a first fix inspection then issue a completion cert after receiving your cert and SOTR etc.
Hope this answers mate.

 

[Guest55]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Here is the official Electricians forum answer to the ultimate question of life.the universe and everything


The official answer is




42

Part P is the sort of thing the vogons would invent lol , tediously officious.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

I am far from needing an attitude pill.

I thought I was trying to get my messages clear and to the point as you admit to not reading all threads!!

You wrote the following "

I do know what PART P is I am Part P Competent/Compliant call it what you will.
The point I am trying to make by asking "​

How are you Part P competent/compliant?" is that if YOU know the reason why YOU are classed as competent, then YOU have YOUR answer.
Maybe I should have written "How do YOU know that YOU Barneyb57 is Competent?"
If you can answer that, you have your answer.

Give your local building control a ring or visit to get your official answer.

 

[lloyd1980]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Barneyb57
this is my understanding.
I am fully qualified, 2391 , nvq , 2330 etc.
if you are doing commercial work then labc doesn't come into it, you can issue a generic cert without being a member of a scam.

Domestically is where they brought part p in, IMO to keep a tab on tradesmen working for cash brought in under a safety umbrella as they realised how much tax they were missing out on.

As far as the scams if you join these then in my experience they will want you to have the 2391, the NIC did when I joined, cant remember if they wanted any other quals but seem to remember the 2391 being a requirement.

Any electrical work that's notify able (most in a dwelling) (I'm sure they would make a lamp change notify able if they could!) must be registered with labc, and you know the rules on how to do this reading from previous posts.

I feel for you in regards to the frustration, this forum is an amazing thing to have in your knowledge arsenal there are so many very knowledgeable and helpful people on here who can offer advice on many things your unsure of, dodgy faults that have you racking your brains to wiring insane heating joints, I can't speak highly enough, but at the same time there are plenty of egos on here who like nothing more than to pick people apart for a genuine question.

Cue these people to start scoffing and replying to this but it's how it is.
as electricians we all sometimes suffer from inflated egos myself included, we should just concentrate on helping each other, you are obviously competent and know your stuff and it's a genuine question so I hope this helps.

All the best mate

 

[Barneyb57]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Barneyb57
this is my understanding.
I am fully qualified, 2391 , nvq , 2330 etc.
if you are doing commercial work then labc doesn't come into it, you can issue a generic cert without being a member of a scam.

Domestically is where they brought part p in, IMO to keep a tab on tradesmen working for cash brought in under a safety umbrella as they realised how much tax they were missing out on.

As far as the scams if you join these then in my experience they will want you to have the 2391, the NIC did when I joined, cant remember if they wanted any other quals but seem to remember the 2391 being a requirement.

Any electrical work that's notify able (most in a dwelling) (I'm sure they would make a lamp change notify able if they could!) must be registered with labc, and you know the rules on how to do this reading from previous posts.

I feel for you in regards to the frustration, this forum is an amazing thing to have in your knowledge arsenal there are so many very knowledgeable and helpful people on here who can offer advice on many things your unsure of, dodgy faults that have you racking your brains to wiring insane heating joints, I can't speak highly enough, but at the same time there are plenty of egos on here who like nothing more than to pick people apart for a genuine question.

Cue these people to start scoffing and replying to this but it's how it is.
as electricians we all sometimes suffer from inflated egos myself included, we should just concentrate on helping each other, you are obviously competent and know your stuff and it's a genuine question so I hope this helps.

All the best mate

Thank you for your understanding of my question and why Im asking it,,,and also thank you for a mature grown up and sensible answer/reply,,,which is all I was asking for....thank you and all the best to you Appreciated...

 

[HandySparks]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

You don't need any particular qualification to do PIRs/EICRs. But you need to be competent and you do need PI insurance.

I'd say that you don't NEED PI insurance, although you may choose to pay for it:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/i...demnity-insurance-pirs-eicrs-waste-money.html

 

[Current Affairs]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Can we get a firm answer and decision on this beacause as I read through this forum I become more and more confused,,,on all the courses I have just done which includes Part P and 2391 Inspection,Test and Certification,,,we were told that you must be registered with one of the schemes to sign off work your own or other peoples and issue a Certificate,,,,,The rules say you must be a competent Person??? So what is the real and actual take on this,,,,because I see quite a few people on here who reckon YOU DO NOT need to be registered with NICEIC, NAPIT or ECA etc, etc, to sign off work and issue a Certificate, AND IS THE 2391 A DEFINATE MUST HAVE???
Can we have an Official ANSWER on this.........Thank you............Signed Confused.com

​

The firm answer is a clear NO. You do not need to be registered with NAPIT, NICEIC, BSI etch or do you require any qualifications. Any diyer can notify direct to their local building control.

The confusion, I believe is generated from the schemes as they want us all to join them and pay them their fees
​

 

[DurhamSparky]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Just goes to show that in your 5 weeks they can teach you to do Part P, Inspection and testing, Basic Wiring but cant grasp the difference between a certificate and a report...........

Certificate been in the form of a EIC or a MWC
Report been in the form of a EICR

2 totally different kettle of fish!

oh the joys.!

 

[richy3333]

Re: Can we get an Official answer on this,,Inspection,Testing and Certification and

Here is the official Electricians forum answer to the ultimate question of life.the universe and everything


The official answer is




42

Soory, but in the realms of electrcial work the offical answer is

42 ohms