labourers and the 17th

[not_today]

I have spoken to three companies today in my region (East Anglia) about trying to get a labourers/ mates job to gain some site experience. I explained my situation (hopefully going to college in sept 3 days a week) and

Two of the companies were very kind and told me they would contact me if something came up. The director of the third company has told me that he does not take on labourers without their 17th.

is it possible to obtain my 17th without any site experience? a college near me runs the 17th (2383) in the evenings.

do you think it will make me more employable as a labourer with the eventual goal of enrolling at college to do my nvq l2 and l3?

what advice could you give me to find some relevant site work?

cheers for the help

Sam

 

[KAS1]

I know of a lot of sparks without the 17th edition and to expect a labourer to have obtained this is taking the pi@@, at the least, they should class you as with the 17th edition, is a senior adult trainee IMO, there are no such things in this game as "electricians mates" that was the 1950-60 my friend. Anyone can sit the 17th edition C&G exam you do not have to be an electrician to take the open book multiple choice.

 

[Sintra]

Yes you can do the 17th without having any previous electrical qualifications.

 

[Worldz]

Labours with the 17th o.0 was he winding you up ???

Labours are used for one thing labour in no world would they need to know 17th ed

Seems a wind up tbh do you college and keep looking for jobs

 

[KAS1]

I've always been under the impression labourers are for un-skilled work ie pulling cables and the like, so I think you should name and shame the third company for telling you that garbage

 

[Baker1988]

i have had a few electricians mates jobs and i have not got 17th edition qualification, you should not need the 17th edition if you are just laboring for the company as laboring is classed as unskilled work, so just luck some where else for a job he is asking for too much

 

[darkstar26]

its not going to hurt to do it if you want to be a spark anyway

 

[Paul.M]

Laborers should only need cscs site inoperative card.

Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2.

Improver should have (imho) the above + level 3, (maybe AM2 OR NVQ3).

Electrician should have the above plus 2391 (aka 2394, 2395), AM2 OR NVQ3 and a reasonable amount of time on the tools to use these quals.



Obtaining a job these days are hard because all of the employers and agencies are asking for more quals from people to whittle out the chaff and get a better workforce in these difficult times. They are wanting more for their money basically.

To the OP, get your 17th and more doors will open for you, that is just how the real world works I'm afraid. Its not that hard to pass imho, invest into your future and put your wallet and mind at work to gain you work. After that get all the other tickets you need to make an income.

 

[amlu]

yeah no problems getting 17th edition without experience.
you can go on a 3 day course they mostly tell you how and where to look in the green book. you can also go exam only after some time with green book.

 

[KAS1]

What is this a new grade a "mate" "Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2" Who has come up with this, do you mean un-skilled operatives ?

- - - Updated - - -

post 8

 

[Phoenix]

You can do exam only, you can buy books that give you hints on how best to pass. You can do an on line study course and 'attend a local centre' for the exam (try finding one)! The on line option is about £50 less than a three day college course where you have a trainer and other students to bounce off. IMHO I would take the plunge and do the course at a local centre; there's loads of them about!!! I agree if this is your preferred career choice then you may as well do it; it will stand you in good stead! Good luck!!!

 

[Paul.M]

What is this a new grade a "mate" "Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2" Who has come up with this, do you mean un-skilled operatives ?

- - - Updated - - -

post 8

Post 8 was me, I came up with a minimum requirement for what I believe should be for a mate. CSCS to get on site then a minimum of the 17th ed to prove that the mate has passed an exam showing that he/she can find an answer to a problem in a regs book if/when they come across a problem that they dont know from the top of their head.

eg, mate is sent to do a task but knows his/her instructions are against the regs. He/she will know this from their education or by looking it up and showing the Q/S from a book. We all make mistakes including supervisors and designers. (trust me, I'm having a bit of a battle with a designer atm about this).

My post number 8 is my own opinions on what I believe a structured ratting should be in the real world and not from a JIB grading system. A mate should know basic isolation, cable colours/sizes/types/routes/containment/location/grouping/installation and protection. If they dont they should know where to find the information for the safety of others.

 

[Phoenix]

Post 8 was me, I came up with a minimum requirement for what I believe should be for a mate. CSCS to get on site then a minimum of the 17th ed to prove that the mate has passed an exam showing that he/she can find an answer to a problem in a regs book if/when they come across a problem that they dont know from the top of their head.

eg, mate is sent to do a task but knows his/her instructions are against the regs. He/she will know this from their education or by looking it up and showing the Q/S from a book. We all make mistakes including supervisors and designers. (trust me, I'm having a bit of a battle with a designer atm about this).

My post number 8 is my own opinions on what I believe a structured ratting should be in the real world and not from a JIB grading system. A mate should know basic isolation, cable colours/sizes/types/routes/containment/location/grouping/installation and protection. If they dont they should know where to find the information for the safety of others.

I agree. A 'mate' is more than a 'labourer'; A labourer doesn't need to know the slump figure for the concrete; just where to barrow it too. A 'mate' needs to know a lot more 'cos our stuff kills.

 

[grantr37]

Labours with the 17th o.0 was he winding you up ???

Labours are used for one thing labour in no world would they need to know 17th ed

Seems a wind up tbh do you college and keep looking for jobs

If you think that's bad, a lot of companies (I.e about 35-40% of recruitment Agencies, very soon to be more once they all join the bandwagon) want ALL Electricians mates/labourers to have the 17th Edition, the 2377 PAT, the 3 day First Aid, Abrasive Wheels, PASMA, IPAF, Asbestos and an Enhanced Disclosure, as well as their own tools, PPE and Vehicle....

For Pipefitters/ventilation fitters mates they want the IPAF, PASMA, Abrasive wheels, 3 day First Aid,Asbestos, Manual Handling and many are asking for the Telehandler Forklift Licence and/or Banksman signaler /loader......the foreign workers mostly all have it and it's good for shifting heavy sections of pipes about.....not to mention own PPE, Tools and Vehicle....


A lot of these guys don't earn enough to keep their own vehicle on the road, and the Agencies claim the £50 (last time I checked) a head for PPE which they never buy for/give to the labourers/mates (or come to think of it anybody else) they just tell you to get your own then keep the money.....


The tickets cost ££ ££

I mean, for a mate/labourer getting paid in buttons to be asked/told to get:

17th Edition : £450.00
IPAF: £240.00
PASMA: £240.00
3 day first Aid: £600.00
Abrasive Wheels and Disks: £150.00
Asbestos Ticket75.00
Manual Handling: £170.00 (online multi choice is £35.00 but not accepted by most)
Telehandler Forklift :upwards of £700.00

just to get onto site......then they are only valid for 2 or 3 years, need to "refresh" at 2/3 the cost of doing the whole thing again......and if they do an "update" and jig it about a little bit, then a whole new upgrade to a different certificate name/number at full price....

These guys are getting stung......the Recruitment Agencies can charge out at a higher rate per hour as they are meant to pay sparks and mates more who have certain tickets, but they don't tell you that and just bank/pocket the difference for themselves....

I was told that if a worker has a First Aid certificate, supposedly it is the law that they get paid a slightly higher rate (£1.50 or £2.00, and that was about 3 years ago when it was mentioned to me) this, I was told, was to compensate for the responsibility of being a First Aider on site and to go towards the costs incurred by the worker(s) for keeping up to date with First Aid training.....

If you are a first Aider, ask if you are going to be getting paid a better rate....


I was working beside a spark a few years ago who was in from a different Agency, he was there as he was a designated First Aider on site, and the gaffer pulled him into the office when I was in there and sent him to his car for his first aid certificates, which he scanned for the site records.....the lad told me that he only got the job as he had a first aid ticket, I asked if he was getting paid for it and he had negotiated an extra £2 an hour on top of what the others were getting as he said he would wrap it otherwise.....the Agency were charging him out at £5 an hour extra on top....was a good guy to work with.....after 3 weeks on site he got the old P45-Pumped as a manager moved from another site to the portacabin office who had a first aid certificate and they said he was too expensive to keep, this caused a falling out with the Agency (one of three Agencies supplying workers) resulting in another 6 people( 3 sparks, 3 pipefitters) getting laid off, apparently to do with inability to jump ship/change Agencies due to "finders fee"



So, if you have a First Aid certificate and a Green Sticker on your hardhat,make sure you get extra money, because the agency have put you on the invoice as a first aid operative and are taking money for that...

 

[Essexboy7]

Reading between the lines mate i reckon the geezer will pay you as a labourer and try and get you do sparks work.He is probably hoping you will pick up a bit of electrical knowldege on the course.So he will be paying you £8 an hour and charging £40 an hour for you

 

[grantr37]

Laborers should only need cscs site inoperative card.

Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2.

Improver should have (imho) the above + level 3, (maybe AM2 OR NVQ3).

Electrician should have the above plus 2391 (aka 2394, 2395), AM2 OR NVQ3 and a reasonable amount of time on the tools to use these quals.



Obtaining a job these days are hard because all of the employers and agencies are asking for more quals from people to whittle out the chaff and get a better workforce in these difficult times. They are wanting more for their money basically.

To the OP, get your 17th and more doors will open for you, that is just how the real world works I'm afraid. Itsnot that hard to pass imho, invest into your future and put your wallet and mind at work to gain you work. After that get all the other tickets you need to make an income.

Are you going to pay the £450.00 for him to do the 17th edition then? it's very easy to pass as long as you've got the money in the Bank just like all of the other tickets, so you might be able to easily do it, but if you're currently skint then you're Knackered aren't you???


sorry bud, no tickets no job.........

no job, no savings........no savings no money......no money, no courses/tickets........no tickets no job sorry....That's how it is in the real world.....

what about the young sparks and the labourers and trades mates trying to get tickets and with maybe a wife and kids, a car to keep running, living miles from Colleges out in the sticks? they would have to go to a College maybe for a number of days, possibly spread out over weeks and months just to get tickets/training.....then go back at night for exams on different dates spread out....that's Digs to pay for as well, food, petrol or Bus/Train tickets...


A lot of sparks just starting out or labourers trying to gain tickets/certificates only have dust in their wallet......we need to lay off of them it's bad enough for them these days without people saying....


"I have money I do tickets, you should have the tickets too, otherwise you're useless" or similar things...

 

[grantr37]

You can do exam only, you can buy books that give you hints on how best to pass. You can do an on line study course and 'attend a local centre' for the exam (try finding one)! The on line option is about £50 less than a three day college course where you have a trainer and other students to bounce off. IMHO I would take the plunge and do the course at a local centre; there's loads of them about!!! I agree if this is your preferred career choice then you may as well do it; it will stand you in good stead! Good luck!!!

pretty much impossible, from what I seen speaking to a few different college lecturers and office staff over the last few years, very very few of them will let anybody just do an exam only for ANY subject at all.....the reasons given are A) their reputation if too many people don't pass first time round and B) the certificate issuers such as City n Guilds don't like it at all and strongly discourage the Colleges from allowing it...

 

[grantr37]

I have spoken to three companies today in my region (East Anglia) about trying to get a labourers/ mates job to gain some site experience. I explained my situation (hopefully going to college in sept 3 days a week) and

Two of the companies were very kind and told me they would contact me if something came up. The director of the third company has told me that he does not take on labourers without their 17th.

is it possible to obtain my 17th without any site experience? a college near me runs the 17th (2383) in the evenings.

do you think it will make me more employable as a labourer with the eventual goal of enrolling at college to do my nvq l2 and l3?

what advice could you give me to find some relevant site work?

cheers for the help

Sam

did you find out about getting your ILA (Individual Learning Account) ? that can take £200 off the cost of the 17th Edition.. look on google...

 

[grantr37]

I seen a job advertised online for an "SJIB Approved sparks mate" earlier......Agency stated "if not a graded carded Approved SJIB Electricians mate"....need not apply....


is there now an "approved" grade for an Electricians mate/labourer?.......first I heard of it....

 

[Baker1988]

i went for a interview today with a agency for a sparks mate job and when i got there they asked me if i had any quals i told them i had my peo lv2 elec engineering and c & g 2330 level 2 and that i was in my second year at college on the new 2357 course and then he said i needed the 17th edition qual, asbestos awerness ticket and confined spaces ticket which i havnt got so i did not get the job but they wanted all this andwas only paying £6.19 hr i think this i really bad

 

[Paul.M]

Are you going to pay the £450.00 for him to do the 17th edition then?

I'll pay for the OP's example only under the condition that he and I can sit in a quiet room for 1 hour before the exam so I can explain how to read a book and pass the exam. Deal?

it's very easy to pass as long as you've got the money in the Bank just like all of the other tickets, so you might be able to easily do it, but if you're currently skint then you're Knackered aren't you???

See above for the OP's 17th. As for other tickets he will have to do what I did and many others on here (including yourself by the sound of it) and do crappy jobs to make the money to then make something of yourself, its not aesy and there is no fast track in getting where you deserve to be. Always pushing myself to become better, that is an electrician talking and not a plumber.


sorry bud, no tickets no job......... Yes you can, its just hard to find and not worth doing. Dont go down the "employed by a cowboy company" route.

no job, no savings........no savings no money......no money, no courses/tickets........no tickets no job sorry....That's how it is in the real world..... Keep working in whatever you can earn money from and invest it into your education. It will pay you back from all the hard times you went through to get there.

what about the young sparks and the labourers and trades mates trying to get tickets and with maybe a wife and kids, a car to keep running, living miles from Colleges out in the sticks? they would have to go to a College maybe for a number of days, possibly spread out over weeks and months just to get tickets/training.....then go back at night for exams on different dates spread out....that's Digs to pay for as well, food, petrol or Bus/Train tickets...

I dont live in the sticks so I can only assume the personal and financial costs involved. as for the rest..... Seems like you are having a pop at me and my personal opinions of how a grading system should be. Here is my end of the stick (the sh1ty end)....

17-21 electrical laborer on rubbish wages. Went into other fields of employment for the money, bought a house just making ends meet. My mum passed away therefore leaving me with my 74 year old Dad with cancer and in a wheelchair and I became his full time carer. Needed a job to fit within his times of daily needs so I became a night shift taxi driver in a large city center (that was an experience I tell you). Whilst doing all this I signed up to college and paid for it all myself + mortgage + bills + living costs so I know how hard it can be. Then while doing my 2330 level 3 my Brother passed away 4 and a half weeks before my Dad. I had two estates and funerals to sort out just before going into my level 3 final exams. I had to do and pay for 3 re-sits due to the time I missed at school but I passed and afterwards I still revised the things I missed just so I know the subjects that I was not strong at. It has taken a lot of time and effort to get to where I am now and I'm not finished yet.


A lot of sparks just starting out or labourers trying to gain tickets/certificates only have dust in their wallet......we need to lay off of them it's bad enough for them these days without people saying.... I'm not laying into anyone, just ask anyone in the trainee section of this forum which I've spent a lot of time in. Also before that, ask the several people that are in training on this forum about the help, tools and books I have given them? I've even taken a few of them on site with me for experience or to help with their portfolio for their NVQ!


"I have money I do tickets, you should have the tickets too, otherwise you're useless" or similar things... Think I've made my stance very clear

My reply in red so everyone can see it, I've got nothing to hide. If you want to be an ELECTRICIAN then do it, get on with it and become an ELECTRICIAN. It may take a bit longer than what you wanted but you will get there.

Paul M.

 

[moose]

This is kinda annoying to be honest as the only ppl who need the 17th Editon are Company directors, and main office staff for a company to run, and most Gaffers will tell you this, the 17th edition cert makes sure that you can read the BGB correctly, which a Gaffer is suppose to do and he is suppose to guide us in the correct manner with all the updates.

I also have the 17th Edition, for the record as jobs today require it to get the best qualified, shame its not for the real purposes.

Same as scaffold and other stuff certs the companies should be paying for me to have it for the job but guess what its all the same.... LMAO grumpy mode out.

Good luck with the exam and it does all help been better educated than a Gaffer you might be there boss one day..its all that easy in our game....

 

[Paul.M]

is it possible to obtain my 17th without any site experience? a college near me runs the 17th (2383) in the evenings.

Sam

Open invite for you Sam. You find a local college that does the 17th ed exam only and I will pay for it under the condition that I can spend an hour with you before you go into the exam.

This is an open offer to you on the open forum and my forum reputation is on the line if I dont keep up my end of the deal. Btw I am a man of my word and if you want your 17th ed send me a pm with your phone number and we will get this qualification together so you can get into employment.

A lot of people on here know me personally and will say I'm a up front type of guy. You have nothing to worry about with me. Just ask any of the mods, Arms members or the regular members.

The offer is there for you Sam.

Paul M.

 

[Baker1988]

Open invite for you Sam. You find a local college that does the 17th ed exam only and I will pay for it under the condition that I can spend an hour with you before you go into the exam.

This is an open offer to you on the open forum and my forum reputation is on the line if I dont keep up my end of the deal. Btw I am a man of my word and if you want your 17th ed send me a pm with your phone number and we will get this qualification together so you can get into employment.

A lot of people on here know me personally and will say I'm a up front type of guy. You have nothing to worry about with me. Just ask any of the mods, Arms members or the regular members.

The offer is there for you Sam.

Paul M.

I will have it if he doesn't haha

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I took my 17th 'exam only', a couple of years ago.
I first phoned the City and Guilds in order to find somewhere that would allow me to just do the exam.
They weren't much help, but didn'nt in anyway suggest that the practice was frowned upon.
I eventually ended up taking it at Havering College, for £30.
Cheaper than the ECS test, and lasts a lot longer.

Oh yes, it was the 2 hour exam as well.

 

[grantr37]

i went for a interview today with a agency for a sparks mate job and when i got there they asked me if i had any quals i told them i had my peo lv2 elec engineering and c & g 2330 level 2 and that i was in my second year at college on the new 2357 course and then he said i needed the 17th edition qual, asbestos awerness ticket and confined spaces ticket which i havnt got so i did not get the job but they wanted all this andwas only paying £6.19 hr i think this i really bad

and the confined spaces ticket is £700.00 odd........they must think they're being funny......sorry you wasted time and money traveling to that agency.....


I think we need to contact a load of head offices and let them know that they just can't have confined spaces tickets and first aid certificates from every spark no matter what nonsense the agencies feed them to try and promote their USP's (Unique Selling Points)and that's why they can't get a lot of us onto site....


I may visit a few and write to some more...

 

[grantr37]

paul.m I will put something in the pot as well....


anybody else want to chip in?

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Open invite for you Sam. You find a local college that does the 17th ed exam only and I will pay for it under the condition that I can spend an hour with you before you go into the exam..................

That's a very magnanimous offer you've made there Paul

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

did you find out about getting your ILA (Individual Learning Account) ? that can take £200 off the cost of the 17th Edition.. look on google...

C&G Bursaries (grants) are currently open. It may be of help. "Applications close on 1 May 2013 at 5pm"

Clicky

 

[Floody]

Is it domestic work or industrial?

If its domestic - they probably won't take you on as you'd need to know a few basics before going in to wire houses. There's not enough 'labouring' work around sparks in a house. You'd be doing a sparks job and getting paid a mates wage if you know anything about wiring houses.

if its industrial, you will be cable pulling, cutting strut, instating conduit,ladder nd tray etc. you'd be more likely to get on one of these sites without any knowledge than into a house.

atleast with going on industrial site, you can watch a learn and times and pick it up as you go along, but with housing, it's all about speed and money. They arnt going to pay you minimum wage (yes!!) to stand around a learn. You may as well ask them for an apprenticeship if you want to do that.




this is coming from someone who 12 months ago was in the same boat as you.... And has been through all the above in 12 months. My 2 pence worth... Get into industrial. Better money, make more contacts, BETTER LAUGH!

 

[KAS1]

What's your thoughts on employing labourers and SMAs instead of sparks?

Laborers should only need cscs site inoperative card.

Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2.

Improver should have (imho) the above + level 3, (maybe AM2 OR NVQ3).

Electrician should have the above plus 2391 (aka 2394, 2395), AM2 OR NVQ3 and a reasonable amount of time on the tools to use these quals.



Obtaining a job these days are hard because all of the employers and agencies are asking for more quals from people to whittle out the chaff and get a better workforce in these difficult times. They are wanting more for their money basically.

To the OP, get your 17th and more doors will open for you, that is just how the real world works I'm afraid. Its not that hard to pass imho, invest into your future and put your wallet and mind at work to gain you work. After that get all the other tickets you need to make an income.

 

[Floody]

Oh and funnily enough, my tutor last night advised people about taking their 17th edition before finishing level 3 2330.

reason: you won't have a clue about what the tutors talking about on some parts without experience on the job or 2330lvl 2+3


So I'd just get ur backside into college like the rest of us and do it all properly and formerly

 

[Baker1988]

Oh and funnily enough, my tutor last night advised people about taking their 17th edition before finishing level 3 2330.

reason: you won't have a clue about what the tutors talking about on some parts without experience on the job or 2330lvl 2+3


So I'd just get ur backside into college like the rest of us and do it all properly and formerly

yeah my tutor said similar, the college i am at don't even off the 17th edition to people who have not got there full technical certificate my tutor said "just finish your course then when you have only the nvq to finish go and do the 17th edition"

 

[Floody]

Mine said the same Baker. Seems commons sense. There will be an 18th ed by then anyway

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I know of a lot of sparks without the 17th edition and to expect a labourer to have obtained this is taking the pi@@, at the least, they should class you as with the 17th edition, is a senior adult trainee IMO, there are no such things in this game as "electricians mates" that was the 1950-60 my friend. Anyone can sit the 17th edition C&G exam you do not have to be an electrician to take the open book multiple choice.

bloody hell no!!
third year at college...then yes
online guess...no

 

[Paul.M]

Update. Sam and I have had a good conversation today and he is looking into finding a college that does the exam only which I will pay for. He is signing on at the moment so I have advised him to ask the job center to put him on his 17th and cscs course. If he can get onto these free of charge, I have told him I will buy him the BGB. Cant say fairer than that.

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Update. Sam and I have had a good conversation today and he is looking into finding a college that does the exam only which I will pay for. He is signing on at the moment so I have advised him to ask the job center to put him on his 17th and cscs course. If he can get onto these free of charge, I have told him I will buy him the BGB. Cant say fairer than that***(mine).

You Dude, are one hell of a guy! Now, about my split screen Beetle......

Seriously, I know its a bit out of date but I have a pristine copy of exam success 2391-10 if that's of use.

Totally off topic. Anyone else having the issue with the OSG's green cover going white, meanwhile there's green fingerprints inside this tome of knowledge/carp?

*** Is Sam on basic jsa (Heh!, Sam can speak/type himself, should ask him not you!!)? I know if your on Long term (6mths+) jsa/Incapacity and/or Disability they'll throw everything at you.

 

[Phoenix]

Paul, that's extremely generous of you and Sam, I wish you luck in your chosen career. Many people scoff at a lot of C&G's, but to me, learning is learning and the day I stop learning is that day I give it all up; be it electrics or my other hobby, motorcycling :cool4:. Elmer, my OSG is also losing its' green onto my fingers...

 

[not_today]

Lads i cant get over the generosity thats been shown to me by paul and others on this site.

I will be calling the job center tomorrow to get the ball rolling on getting my cscs or ecs card as well as my 17th.

Im on basic jsa i think havnt been signed on for 6 months yet.

All the best sam

Paul, that's extremely generous of you and Sam, I wish you luck in your chosen career. Many people scoff at a lot of C&G's, but to me, learning is learning and the day I stop learning is that day I give it all up; be it electrics or my other hobby, motorcycling :cool4:. Elmer, my OSG is also losing its' green onto my fingers...

 

[Paul.M]

Lads i cant get over the generosity thats been shown to me by paul and others on this site.

You have chosen a path, "we" have helped you to see the correct way, now its down to you to walk the hard road to become an Electrician. We have all done it in one way or another, now its your turn.

Good luck Sam from the members that are giving you support.

 

[bigbaddave]

Things are bad at the mo im affraid. Employers are getting more for less money.. If thats what they want then thats what they get.. Just keep trying bud.. Somthing will come up

 

[flyingsausage]

pretty much impossible, from what I seen speaking to a few different college lecturers and office staff over the last few years, very very few of them will let anybody just do an exam only for ANY subject at all.....the reasons given are A) their reputation if too many people don't pass first time round and B) the certificate issuers such as City n Guilds don't like it at all and strongly discourage the Colleges from allowing it...

I think it might be more to do that they make a lot more money from men sitting the full course than just sitting the exam

 

[flyingsausage]

i went for a interview today with a agency for a sparks mate job and when i got there they asked me if i had any quals i told them i had my peo lv2 elec engineering and c & g 2330 level 2 and that i was in my second year at college on the new 2357 course and then he said i needed the 17th edition qual, asbestos awerness ticket and confined spaces ticket which i havnt got so i did not get the job but they wanted all this andwas only paying £6.19 hr i think this i really bad

It is much the same for sparks,I have had agencies phone me up and offering me a start after applying for an advertised job and then asked if I had another ticket that was not mentioned in the advert and many times it is certificates that I have never even heard off.
You can't have every ticket going,I myself and many others I know in the trade have spent good money on some tickets and never had the chance to use them.
You do work out over time which tickets are worth having and which aren't.

The good thing about a City and Guilds qualification is that they last forever and are not time barred like IPAF,PASMA etc.


Remember the training industry is an industry and like any other it;s first priority is to exist and make money out of suckers like you and me.

 

[grantr37]

Update. Sam and I have had a good conversation today and he is looking into finding a college that does the exam only which I will pay for. He is signing on at the moment so I have advised him to ask the job center to put him on his 17th and cscs course. If he can get onto these free of charge, I have told him I will buy him the BGB. Cant say fairer than that.

The Jobcentre are very unlikely to pay anything for him, but he can get his ILA £200.00 voucher for free, this will give him £200.00 a year to use(towards) for courses, the CSCS is £17.50 just now....look on pearson website via google...

most colleges will do a discounted rate for courses if unemployed as well...

 

[grantr37]

It is much the same for sparks,I have had agencies phone me up and offering me a start after applying for an advertised job and then asked if I had another ticket that was not mentioned in the advert and many times it is certificates that I have never even heard off.
You can't have every ticket going,I myself and many others I know in the trade have spent good money on some tickets and never had the chance to use them.
You do work out over time which tickets are worth having and which aren't.

The good thing about a City and Guilds qualification is that they last forever and are not time barred like IPAF,PASMA etc.


Remember the training industry is an industry and like any other it;s first priority is to exist and make money out of suckers like you and me.

I don't Know about that these days, look at the 2391- now defunct and valueless in the eyes of a lot of employers, now I know most of us all say "I aint doing another one I have the 2391 from 3 years ago" etc......but if the employer says 2356 2357, and most everybody else has it, then we need to do it or lose out... its all about saleability i.e the agencies all want to have the longest list of "all our sparks have"..."such and such tickets"


Even the 2377-11 and 2377-12 are now defunct, and you guessed it "out of date and worthless".....Another one that I need to replace incase I get asked to do any PAT testing ....its now the 2377-22 and 2377-32, and that's what the Agencies have taken to asking for....


I think the changes that they are doing all over the place are just like a form of time Barring....the same effect...

 

[flyingsausage]

I do see your point,I done the 2391 way back in 2000 and I done the Pat Testing course in 1999,but they now seem out of date and i am no rush to spend any more money on any courses.

What I think is happening now is the people that own the agencies will also own the training providers,it makes sense as these are boom industries at the moment with millions of suckers(British workers)falling victum to them when trying to get a job.

My friend always says every system is corrupt and he is right in regards to the employment market - there is far to many leaches out there on the average man just trying to make a living.