13A Outlets with USB outlets

[MikeL1]

Hi all
looking for some feedback regarding the 13A socket outlets which also have USB outlets on the faceplate, i have seen them advertised but have not physically handled one.

1. Has anyone installed these and what are your thoughts, positive & negative required.
2. Are they good quality? if so which manufacturers are the best, i am from the MK era when their products were top quality.
3. Has anyone experienced pitfalls, if so what did you find.
4. Is there the potential for the Tx to fail and subsequently damage the Iphone, Ipad etc...

Any feedback much appreciated

MikeL

 

[Guest77]

I cannot see why there would be an issue myself, if they have the BS Kite mark and are fit for purpose then great. I have seen them advertised in several wholesalers so they should be fit for purpose. Regarding a make, I like Crabtree myself in accessories and also like Hager, so if one of those manufacturers make one I would look at their outlets first myself, HTHs.

 

[Rockingit]

I think fundamentally they're a good idea, and I've heard mixed reviews on quality for different brands. I've never been quite sure though if you'll need to link them out for IR testing?

 

[Guest77]

Look here

http://www.electrium.co.uk/march14/Crabtree USB Charger Solutions.pdf

 

[ImpededLoop]

The only downside that I can see it that they are permanently energised and can't be isolated. However, this is no different to a shaver socket where the isolating transformer is always live.

 

[baldsparkies]

If your charging something like an i phone there fine.
Anything larger like an i pad or sat nav and they wont recognise a charge status because there not man enough.

If you look at the link MDJ has put up, you will see that the dedicated units have physically larger transformers.
The combined socket usb outlets only have room for a very small tranny, hence the limiting charge capability.

 

[Simlec]

Fitted loads and I have some at home. Cuts down on all the leads and frees up your sockets.

The CEF M2 are the ones we use, only had one not work from new, customers love them.

 

[Guest77]

If your charging something like an i phone there fine.
Anything larger like an i pad or sat nav and they wont recognise a charge status because there not man enough.

I cannot understand that to be honest, surely they are designed to give an output which can handle a load bigger than a phone, I just don't get your comment here, evidence please.

 

[Plonker 3]

Cant really see any advantages to them myself. As soon as you go away on holiday etc you need to buy a socket adaptor anyway.

 

[Andy78]

There was an esc report slating them not so long back if you search the web.
There are no standards covering this type of product as yet so its a bit of a lucky bag. The ones I have handled all look a bit crap but I have never installed any.

All the ones available are from brands I wouldn't use anyway.

 

[trev]

The cheapest I've seen these things is around the £13 mark +vat. There's some joker round our way installing them for £20 a pop.

 

[shanky887614]

I cannot understand that to be honest, surely they are designed to give an output which can handle a load bigger than a phone, I just don't get your comment here, evidence please.

the problem is more that certain devices will only trickle charge unless they are plugged into the offical charger.

otherwise it will charge at 500/900mah.

one that will charge apple devices at full rate probably wont do the same for Android devices and vice versa as they use different values to differentiate between offical/usb and unofficial chargers

 

[Guest77]

the problem is more that certain devices will only trickle charge unless they are plugged into the offical charger.

otherwise it will charge at 500/900mah.

one that will charge apple devices at full rate probably wont do the same for Android devices and vice versa as they use different values to differentiate between offical/usb and unofficial chargers

Ah I see, thankyou buddy, that explains it, I couldn't work that out at all, I see what you are saying and yes that makes sence cheers.

 

[shanky887614]

Ah I see, thankyou buddy, that explains it, I couldn't work that out at all, I see what you are saying and yes that makes sence cheers.

that is the reason why ill be messing about with resistors this week to trick the phone into thinking its charging from offical so i can charge at the full 2amps

 

[baldsparkies]

I cannot understand that to be honest, surely they are designed to give an output which can handle a load bigger than a phone, I just don't get your comment here, evidence please.

Shanky has it covered in his reply MDJ, I have fitted quite a few of these things since on the market.
As Shanky says unless the charge supply is recognised as adequate they simply wont charge properly.
The problems I have experienced is with i pads and sat nav systems. i phones and the like seem fine but didn't want anyone thinking its a simple plug and play with any usb device you choose to connect.
Its deffo not the case, just be aware.

This from the apple sight helps clear the point up,

http://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202032

 

[shanky887614]

Shanky has it covered in his reply MDJ, I have fitted quite a few of these things since on the market.
As Shanky says unless the charge supply is recognised as adequate they simply wont charge properly.
The problems I have experienced is with i pads and sat nav systems. i phones and the like seem fine but didn't want anyone thinking its a simple plug and play with any usb device you choose to connect.
Its deffo not the case, just be aware.

the problem is i would never give anyone a cable with a few resistors added (like im making for myself)

because if the charger cant output that high then there is nothing to stop a devices trying to pull too much current through it.

the reason a lot of these wont work is they are the same as a cheap car charger

 

[Guest77]

Shanky has it covered in his reply MDJ, I have fitted quite a few of these things since on the market.
As Shanky says unless the charge supply is recognised as adequate they simply wont charge properly.
The problems I have experienced is with i pads and sat nav systems. i phones and the like seem fine but didn't want anyone thinking its a simple plug and play with any usb device you choose to connect.
Its deffo not the case, just be aware.

This from the apple sight helps clear the point up,

Charge the battery in your iPad - Apple Support

Yes I can see it now, I was genuinely wondering what it was all about but as you say Shanks has clarified it so It makes sence.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Interesting can't see what's up with the original charger though

 

[ImpededLoop]

the problem is i would never give anyone a cable with a few resistors added (like im making for myself)

because if the charger cant output that high then there is nothing to stop a devices trying to pull too much current through it.

the reason a lot of these wont work is they are the same as a cheap car charger

I think that it all evolved from the limitations of USB ports on computers in terms of the current they can deliver. As Shanky says, the mobile manufacturers limit the current that their devices can draw from an unknown USB port.

 

[R G]

I just had a read about them and it seems some are classed as unsafe , due to the segregation of the different voltages. I don't think I would fit them , the Crabtree looks like they have thought of that and its on its own , not C/W a 13A socket outlet , and I suppose you could install a point of isolation nearby , I have not installed any as yet though..

 

[Crackedwolf]

We had an MK rep visit with a flyer back in 2011 advertising sockets with on board usb charging points........... we ordered some and then they pulled them. We've only used Sensio power pods since in desk/worktops,never had any complaints
Sensio Furniture Lighting Solutions

 

[andyelectric]

I must admit I don't really see the point of them. You need a charger anyway in case you need to charge elsewhere, so although it frees up a socket, I'd rather use the charger so I always know where it is.

 

[Guest55]

my understanding of this product is

i would treat it as as any other accessory with electronics , rcd spur , dimmer , shaver skt etc , with regards to installing , testing , and longevity.
and i thought the usb outlets came in various outputs ranging from 1A - 2A , obviously higher rated will charge your gadgets faster.
and the dc supply on the outgoing side should have overload protection built-in , so i dont see it as any more hazadous than any other charging method.

just my 2p.

peace out.

 

[Simlec]

The CEF one I have will charge two ipads at once, (as it is now hee hee) and i still have two free sockets..

 

[R G]

Got this earlier


oops can't get link to install ...

 

[Guest55]

Got this earlier


oops can't get link to install ...

even your own dog is shocked at your upload fail

 

[R G]

http://wwhttp://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100145109/web_usb-article-from-so32.pdf



try this

 

[R G]

www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk:

still no success ..

 

[ImpededLoop]

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100145109/web_usb-article-from-so32.pdf

Try this...

 

[R G]

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100145109/web_usb-article-from-so32.pdf

Try this...

Thats it , I might get the hang of it eventually ,

 

[baldsparkies]

Always used branded socket outlets from Denmans or CEF most are BS/EN rated but the article has got me thinking I have to admit.

 

[shanky887614]

Always used branded socket outlets from Denmans or CEF most are BS/EN rated but the article has got me thinking I have to admit.

the 230v side is to a bsen but not the 5v transforner and usb

 

[R G]

Thats what I thought , the Crabtree ones look o/k though on their own look o/k though , thats probably why Crabtree have done this ....

 

[NDG Elecs]

that is the reason why ill be messing about with resistors this week to trick the phone into thinking its charging from offical so i can charge at the full 2amps

This is an interesting post. Thanks to OP for raising it!

I have never fitted any of these but have been tempted to do so by my bedside cabinet. Sad I know.... Why I haven't is twofold; no 'decent' branded ones I have come across at a reasonable cost, and due to concerns over the charging rate (as a few have mentioned here).

Would be interested to know the outcome of your attempts at deception Shanky, so please post results. Out of curiosity how do you know which value of resistors to use? Or maybe you don't know as of yet pending your experiment!

 

[shanky887614]

This is an interesting post. Thanks to OP for raising it!

I have never fitted any of these but have been tempted to do so by my bedside cabinet. Sad I know.... Why I haven't is twofold; no 'decent' branded ones I have come across at a reasonable cost, and due to concerns over the charging rate (as a few have mentioned here).

Would be interested to know the outcome of your attempts at deception Shanky, so please post results. Out of curiosity how do you know which value of resistors to use? Or maybe you don't know as of yet pending your experiment!

i need 1.2v on d+ and d- cores.

using the formulae for a voltage divider i found i can use a 3k and 1k resistor for each core to grnd

 

[Razzmond]

Bought one online. Strange considering the screw points on the sides would match up with a standard single back box, but the (what i assume is) the transformer and terminal point on the back doesnt actually fit. Not sure what to make of that.

 

[willy fixit]

If your charging something like an i phone there fine.
Anything larger like an ipad or sat nav and they wont recognise a charge status because there not man enough.

If you look at the link MDJ has put up, you will see that the dedicated units have physically larger transformers.
The combined socket usb outlets only have room for a very small tranny, hence the limiting charge capability.

Pedant alert... (they're) I've said it now!

 

[HandySparks]

Pedant alert... (they're) I've said it now!

Perhaps not pedantic enough, given your stated location?

 

[willy fixit]

Perhaps not pedantic enough, given your stated location?

Hoist by my own petard!

 

[midgetman]

it's not wall USB charger, socket you talk of but upright one, supplied by customer. fitted the other day, charged my phone OK!

 

[midgetman]

yeah 201 posts of pure drivel... time for a lie down.

 

[MikeL1]

First of all, thanks for the unbelievable response to my thread, 900 odd views and 40 replies....amazing
Some very interesting points raised of which i was not aware of, having been away from the domestic scene for about 24 years after moving into the offshore oil/gas industry.

My thread was created because we are looking to install as a trial these type of USB outlets in a few cabins on the platform, the response has now raised quite a few safety issues of which i am very grateful.
At present it seems the Crabtree 2 x USB charging module part no.7073 is the only one with any credibility and meets the relevant standards.
As for the others which are available on the open market in the UK, it is frightening that many do not meet recognised standards, how many are being installed on unsuspecting customers who are non the wiser as to the potential problems which may occur following installation.

So to close this thread out thank you again for the fantastic response, it was much appreciated.

 

[tom262]

I've used them a few times, I've got a couple in the office the only problems I've found is i used hamilton ones and they seem to be slightly larger than the previous hager socket, so they can be a bit of a pain in dual boxes ect.

 

[shanky887614]

I've used them a few times, I've got a couple in the office the only problems I've found is i used hamilton ones and they seem to be slightly larger than the previous hager socket, so they can be a bit of a pain in dual boxes ect.

the fronts you mean or are they just deeper?

i imagine they would be deeper because of the 240ac-5vdc transformer in there

 

[tom262]

no not deep wider, they are the ones that have the plate that clicks over to hide the screws, and there flat plate rather than a standard socket.

 

[shanky887614]

This is an interesting post. Thanks to OP for raising it!

I have never fitted any of these but have been tempted to do so by my bedside cabinet. Sad I know.... Why I haven't is twofold; no 'decent' branded ones I have come across at a reasonable cost, and due to concerns over the charging rate (as a few have mentioned here).

Would be interested to know the outcome of your attempts at deception Shanky, so please post results. Out of curiosity how do you know which value of resistors to use? Or maybe you don't know as of yet pending your experiment!

ok i got it working. i know from googling that i need 1.2v on both data pins to ground, using a voltage divider

Choosing USB Pin Voltages for iPhones and iPads ? Update for iPhone 5 | Voltaic Systems Blog ? Solar DIY and Device Charging

5*(1/4) = 1.25v close enough to spec that its fine

using a 3k resistor from L to D+ and another from L to D-

then a 1k from D- to Gnd/negative and a 1k from d+ to Gnd/negative.


quick bit of soldering

proof

ill have to find camera out to prove it though