Discuss A Rather Obvious Forged EICR in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

JK-Electrical

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I know for a fact that the attached EICR is a forgery. I suspected as much even before I had been given a copy of the report.

My suspicions were confirmed the moment I noticed that the tester had entered 25 years as the estimated age of the installation. The installation is in fact, brand-new! The wiring was completed in July. The installation is within a newly-constructed, custom-built MOT testing station.

There is a story to be told about the events that took place prior to the EICR being issued which I will reveal in a later post. In the meantime, see how many irregularities you can find within this EICR.

I have redacted the report to spare any embarrassment for the company whose identity was stolen.
 

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davesparks

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How do you know it has been forged?
Have you spoken to TES electrical to find out whether they created the report or not?

There's some obvious mistakes in the way it has been filled in, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has been forged.
 

JK-Electrical

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How do you know it has been forged?
Because I have smoking-gun proof.
Have you spoken to TES electrical to find out whether they created the report or not?
I haven't, no, but the person who ordered the report has. That is how I know for certain that the report was forged.
There's some obvious mistakes in the way it has been filled in, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has been forged.
In this particular case it most certainly does.
 

davesparks

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Because I have smoking-gun proof.

I haven't, no, but the person who ordered the report has. That is how I know for certain that the report was forged.

In this particular case it most certainly does.
Ah so they have confirmed that someone else has put their company details on the report without their knowledge? This seems very weird and I can't see why they would do it.
Are TES going to pursue the forgers?
 

JK-Electrical

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Ah so they have confirmed that someone else has put their company details on the report without their knowledge?
Yes.
This seems very weird and I can't see why they would do it.
You will after you've digested the back story! Here goes ....

The client hired a builder to construct a purpose-built industrial unit by way of a turnkey project arrangement. The builder selected the electrician. The electrician proves himself to be unreliable and goes AWOL on several occasions. It turns out that the erratic electrician has a serious addiction to Colombian marching powder. The client experiences numerous delays due as a consequence. To add to the client's woes, Building Control have been on site on several occasions and are not happy with several aspects of the project. Further delays ensue.

The Client was planning to move in to the premises back in February, but as of yet is still unable to do so due to Building Control refusing to sign-off on the building warrant because of issues with the certification of the electrical installation. This is the point where things become interesting.

Up here in Scotland, there are three ways of signing-off electrical work that is subject to a building warrant:

1. By using a Scottish Buildings Standards Approved Certifier. The certifier must be a member of SELECT or NICEIC. In this instance, when a building warrant is applied for and the applicant states that they are going to use an approved certifier of construction, the certifier simply downloads a certificate of construction from the Scottish Buildings Standards website, completes it and sends it back to SBS. LA Building Control check the validity of the certificate and sign-off on the work.

2. When the applicant is not using a Scottish Buildings Standards Approved Certifier, building standards will ask for a Minor Works Certificate or an EIC, or even an EICR that has been completed by a SELECT or an NICEIC member.

3. The third option is Reasonable Enquiry. This is the only option available when the person who carried-out the work is not a Scottish Buildings Standards Approved Certifier or a member of SELECT or NICEIC. A copy of the electrician's SJIB grade card must be submitted along with a Minor Works Certificate or an EIC and a copy of the calibration certificate for the test equipment used.

As it happens, the electrician who did the wiring is not registered with SELECT or NICEIC nor does he possess a current SJIB grading card. He therefore cannot sign-off on his work. It is at this point when the client, who is now pulling his hair out and is understandably feeling very stressed, contacts me for advice. I advise him accordingly. The client issues the builder with an ultimatum and demands that certification is provided no later than the end of July otherwise he will withhold final payment. The builder gets back to the client a few days later and promises that he will have the job signed-off before the deadline. The builder then gets the original electrician back on site. He brings with him a pal who is subsequently discovered to be a former employee of the company whose name appears on the EICR. An EICR is produced and given to the builder who then passes the report to the client. The client sends the report over to me for analysis.

I had serious misgivings about this report even before I had looked at it. My first impressions were that it was a forgery. It appeared to have been scanned then saved as a PDF file. My suspicions were heightened when I noticed that the age of this brand-new installation was stated to be 25 years. I was somewhat alarmed to note that although the stated PFC is given as 11.5 kA, the MCBs are listed as having a breaking capacity of 6kA. I wouldn't like to be standing in the vicinity of any of those breakers should they ever rupture. Since the installation is quite literally right next door to a sub-station, the stated earth loop impedance of 0.02 ohms will almost certainly be correct.

Then there is the issue of no RCD protection for any of the sockets in the main part of the premises. Although the boxes for RCD test button functionality have been ticked, no trip times have been recorded. It is therefore highly unlikely that RCD protection is present. Regulation 411.3.3 permits the omission of RCD protection in non-domestic premises so long as a documented risk assessment has been carried-out to determine that RCD protection is unnecessary. No risk assessment has been carried-out.

Having discussed these issues with client, he decided to contact the company whose name appears on the report. The company confirmed that the serial number listed on the report relates to a different job! They also confirmed that the tester whose name appears on the report is no longer employed there. One need not be a seasoned detective to figure-out what has happened here.

The client has leant on the builder and threatened to withhold final payment. The builder has in turn most likely leant on the electrician who did the work and told him he isn't getting paid until the job is certified. Unable to sign-off himself, the desperate electrician enlists the help of a pal who uses an existing EICR that was carried-out by his former employer and forges the report, erasing the original data and substituting it with data for the new installation. One has to wonder if the entire schedule of tests has been fabricated.

My understanding is that Building Control will accept an EICR from a SELECT or NICEIC member. I will therefore be carrying-out a very thorough EICR. No stone will be left unturned. I've agreed a deal with the client and he is happy to pay me on a time and materials basis. If the photo he sent me is indicative of the overall condition of this brand-new installation, then I dread to think what other defects I will uncover.

20190715_113045.jpg
Are TES going to pursue the forgers?
I don't know. I sure hope so. I have advised the client to take the matter up with Trading Standards regardless. The charlatans and rogue electricians who bring our trade into disrepute need to be identified and held to account for their actions.
 

richy3333

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Interesting scenario and thanks for detailing on the forum.

Having just gone through the process of dealing with trying to report someone that has done dangerous work I can only wish you good luck. NICEIC and SELECT were useless. Even went to the MSP. The NICEIC might get off their arses if they think their logo has been used otherwise don't hold your breath
 

FatAlan

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Looks like a stone bonker fraud or attempted fraud. Don’t think the 2006 Fraud Act applies in Scotland with you guys dealing with a lot of stuff under Common Law which covers most things fraudulent. I hope the builder is going to see the client right and the dodgy spark has carefully hidden his stash! Pigs might fly though given the current state of law enforcement.
 

JK-Electrical

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Are those terminals showing signs of "Mutilation"
by a very Peed off electrician ?
Or just some one who has a Wood butchers screwdriver kit !
This is what wood butchering looks like.

Quite why anyone would drill this size of hole for a 1.5 mm twin and earth mystifies me. The imbecile who did this has made no attempt to seal the hole. Remember, this is a brand-new installation that someone has done an EICR on and rated as being 'satisfactory'.

IMG_20190807_090807.jpg
 

JK-Electrical

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This is a one of five glands that were found to be loose inside and out. The top of the gland was barely hand-tight, and as is evidenced by the photo, the bottom half wasn't fully inserted in the entry hole.

20190807_095115.jpg
 

PEG

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...what can i tell you...i cut a few corners....after all,i was clucking...:oops:
 

JK-Electrical

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This is how the wiring looks when viewed from behind the board. All the cables have been taped together and left dangling.

20190807_100237.jpg
 

JK-Electrical

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I would say the block with the blue conductors at it looks like it shows signs of melting.
You are correct. I'm informed that prior to a 16mm SWA being installed to supply a sub-board for the office area, one of those twin and earths was acting as the supply cable! Apparently whoever installed the sub-board connected all the final circuits, but for reasons best known to himself, decided to spur the supply for the board from a ring final circuit elsewhere in the building. I don't know what he was thinking.
 

JK-Electrical

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Why is there a smoke detector circuit on that type of installation unless it is a fire alarm,
There's a fire alarm panel, smoke alarms, call points and sounders present. I noticed that the panel is indicating a fault condition.

However, no certificate other than a MEIWC has been issued. Whoever did the work submitted a MEIWC to cover the design, installation and commissioning! There is no certification for the emergency lighting either.
 

JK-Electrical

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Sounds like someone well and truly out of their depth.
That was my conclusion too. There is insufficient capacity in the main board. All the ways have been used. One of the breakers has three conductors. Two supply the main area lighting and emergency lighting. The other supplies one of the shuttered doors of which there are five in total. Another of the doors has been spurred direct from the ring final circuit.
 
I think the problem is an electrician can cover different levels of competence and you can always spot an electrician whos level of skill is domestic in a commercial world. Not that I am comparing one with another but there is one of those Nagey videos of him fitting SWA cables to a cable tray installed incorrectly and it looks appalling. A case of stick to what you know.
 

KennyKen

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The Fault lies obviously with the idiot who contributed to the mess and the Builder enlisting a non licensed Electrician. The client should have requested his credentials prior to the commencement of work.

On Major sites in Aus. You have to provide an Electrical license and sometimes (A new thing appearing to stop things like this) a CV/Resume to check on your background to ensure you are capable.

I’m not knocking house bashers but Especially in Heavy Industrial and Mining they used to take them on as T/A’s (Mates)

---- work... terrible I’ve seen better in 3rd world countries.
 
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Knowing your limitations as a sparks is equally as important as knowing what you can do...
Just the other day I was asked to quote for a job that requires a lot of reworking and installing new micc in a 1940s built chapel. I have declined as it’s beyond my level.
If it was one or two micc that need altering I ‘might’ have given it a go. But this job will require 40-50 alterations and additions all in micc.
Know your role
 
Oh and I should add I was the second sparks to decline the job. The first guy also said he wasn’t confident working on that amount of micc cables.
 

KennyKen

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It’s been a long time since I worked on Pyro (MICC) the old sparks I worked with (Jurassic sparks) he bought me a set of MICC tools... Potting tool. Crimper and Stripper then took them away from me. I had to strip it with side cutters and a screwdriver. Use a set of pliers as a potting tool. His motto was do it the hard way and everything becomes easier. The same was with steel conduit. We used a block of wood with a slanted hole.
 

davesparks

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Knowing your limitations as a sparks is equally as important as knowing what you can do...
Just the other day I was asked to quote for a job that requires a lot of reworking and installing new micc in a 1940s built chapel. I have declined as it’s beyond my level.
If it was one or two micc that need altering I ‘might’ have given it a go. But this job will require 40-50 alterations and additions all in micc.
Know your role
Whereabouts is the job and how so9n does it need doing? Sounds like it's up our street but our waiting list is pretty long at the moment.
 
Whereabouts is the job and how so9n does it need doing? Sounds like it's up our street but our waiting list is pretty long at the moment.
I think it’s just outside Frimley. I did think about asking on here if anyone fancied.
If they contact me again I will pass the details onto here.
 

davesparks

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I think it’s just outside Frimley. I did think about asking on here if anyone fancied.
If they contact me again I will pass the details onto here.
No worries, that's not too far from me at all.
The majority of my work is West end theatres, so a lot of very old installations with plenty of pyro.
 

UNG

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This is a brand-new board. Words fail me.
Can't see any slot between the glands on the tails

Knowing your limitations as a sparks is equally as important as knowing what you can do...
Just the other day I was asked to quote for a job that requires a lot of reworking and installing new micc in a 1940s built chapel. I have declined as it’s beyond my level.
If it was one or two micc that need altering I ‘might’ have given it a go. But this job will require 40-50 alterations and additions all in micc.
Know your role
Never seem to get offered that sort of job up here, would be nice to do an MICC job as I have not done one in a good while
 

happyhippydad

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I think the problem is an electrician can cover different levels of competence and you can always spot an electrician whos level of skill is domestic in a commercial world. Not that I am comparing one with another but there is one of those Nagey videos of him fitting SWA cables to a cable tray installed incorrectly and it looks appalling. A case of stick to what you know.
Completely agree Westward. I am purely domestic. My work is neat and safe and I believe my knowledge of domestic electrics is fairly high (although when lucien and DS start talking I question that). However, I got asked to simply put some cables (in a domestic house) in metal trunking. One 3m length of metal trunking, that's all....

Metal trunking!!!! What the hell is that! We use plastic in domestic!

It's got sharp edges, It becomes an exposed conductive part, It doesn't have nice sticky tape on it, It's heavy, It doesn't cut to size in 4 seconds.

I think it should be illegal for domestic customers to even mention it let alone ask for it!
 

GBDamo

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Phew! It’s not one of mine
Not knocking house bashers but this looks like one totally out of their depth.
Agree.

Worked alongside some industrial guys a few weeks ago and the finish they achieve with seemingly little effort was a joy to behold. They were running a new 5core 25mm SWA supply and TP board.

All tray and galv trunking, very nice work.

Little things I noticed was crimping tray ends, drilling the trunking so that the board sat flush and not raised on its assembly screws.
They had a bracket or hanger for every occasion.

It was a like 'yup, you've done this before'.
 

Andy78

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Agree.

Worked alongside some industrial guys a few weeks ago and the finish they achieve with seemingly little effort was a joy to behold. They were running a new 5core 25mm SWA supply and TP board.

All tray and galv trunking, very nice work.

Little things I noticed was crimping tray ends, drilling the trunking so that the board sat flush and not raised on its assembly screws.
They had a bracket or hanger for every occasion.

It was a like 'yup, you've done this before'.
I miss work like that. Been doing domestic for too long now for it to be interesting every day.
 

telectrix

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I miss work like that. Been doing domestic for too long now for it to be interesting every day.
same here. would love to be back with the galv. tray, trunking, conduit, and being able to fit things without being on my knees or stretching up to a ceiling.
 

magnoliafan89

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Sod that I spent all my apprenticeship and a bit after doing industrial and commercial and now I'm just doing domestic and would not go back.

Prime example Is when I was on a job to install a sub station in a factory and do the runs and install to several panel boards and one ares i used over 300 cable ties, wrenched with a large driver to shape and form a 120mm armoured that was cold and had been all bent twisted etc for 2 weeks around a bend to look nice.

Obviously I cut away unnecessary ties and tidied up the ones that were left.
 

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