BS7671 - JUNCTION BOXES. Checklist

[fazhols]

Hi
There is always much debate and confusion about what does and does not comply. I have prepared (draft form) a checklist that is intended to simplify the regs. Before finalising it I would be grateful for your comments and thoughts..... (if you have any suggested additions or changes please refer to BS7671 or BS 60670-22 if possible).
Thanks
Fazhols

 

[Electro-tech]

Without checking every detail for correctness, looks like a really good guide,concise!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

What is the purpose of this check list?

Is it for us to proof read for you to put on another site?

 

[fazhols]

Its to help/educate the trade! Maybe it could become a "pocket guide". Wholesalers and manufacturers dance around the requirements of BS 7671. If you look at many of the posts on this forum, there are many members whose use of JB's does not comply with BS 7671 - I bet most are not aware of it and have been misled by manufacturers and wholesalers. I am also sure that none have filled in the deviation from BS7671 box on their certs.
So, back to your question. The purpose is to stimulate some debate and get a forum agreed version to create a reference point for the many posts that ask questions about JBs'. Other than the regulators and registration bodies I can not think of another site that would be interested in posting the checklist.

 

[Guest123]

What about ascertaining wether or not they comply with the "accessible for inspection" regulation for screw terminal connections by offering a section about where they will be located??

 

[oldtimer]

Ok but have you seen a CE mark on a "Calvie 4x4 (100X100) box ? I am from the old school of never put a junction box in unless you have to and if you do make sure it is fit for purpose ie 6 1.5 T&E terminated inside a 4x4 instead of a through conduit box and make sure all connections are "Electrically & Mechanically sound" (14th edition) plus if the box is metal make sure you earth it

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Its to help/educate the trade! Maybe it could become a "pocket guide". Wholesalers and manufacturers dance around the requirements of BS 7671. If you look at many of the posts on this forum, there are many members whose use of JB's does not comply with BS 7671 - I bet most are not aware of it and have been misled by manufacturers and wholesalers. I am also sure that none have filled in the deviation from BS7671 box on their certs.
So, back to your question. The purpose is to stimulate some debate and get a forum agreed version to create a reference point for the many posts that ask questions about JBs'. Other than the regulators and registration bodies I can not think of another site that would be interested in posting the checklist.

Wholesalers dance around the requirements of BS7671, only thing they dance around is the cash register when totalling up your bill!!

Can you point me in the direction of the many posts on the forum please.

It seems to me looking at your forum posts you are in some way associated to the line junction box or you are very passionate about the product, which in turn makes me wonder if this checklist maybe for promotional/data for the line product you keep referring to in your other posts.
If that is not the case, I take it back.

In my opinion ALL electricians that have passed their City & Guilds 2382-10 should know what junction box to use, that minor piece of information and installation practice should be way back in the brain and not need a check list. Maybe a guide to working out the adiabatic equation would be more useful.

Everyone who is an electrician on this forum should either own or have access to the BRB and can turn to that should they forget how to terminate a connection in a junction box.

Okay, what you are producing may help out a first year apprentice or may educate the diyer.

Just my input to the debate.

 

[moody89]

What about ascertaining wether or not they comply with the "accessible for inspection" regulation for screw terminal connections by offering a section about where they will be located??

Agree with this. While the rest of your checklist seems to be sound enough, there's no mention of accessibility requirements etc.

 

[fazhols]

Wholesalers dance around the requirements of BS7671, only thing they dance around is the cash register when totalling up your bill!!

Can you point me in the direction of the many posts on the forum please.

It seems to me looking at your forum posts you are in some way associated to the line junction box or you are very passionate about the product, which in turn makes me wonder if this checklist maybe for promotional/data for the line product you keep referring to in your other posts.
If that is not the case, I take it back.

In my opinion ALL electricians that have passed their City & Guilds 2382-10 should know what junction box to use, that minor piece of information and installation practice should be way back in the brain and not need a check list. Maybe a guide to working out the adiabatic equation would be more useful.

Everyone who is an electrician on this forum should either own or have access to the BRB and can turn to that should they forget how to terminate a connection in a junction box.

Okay, what you are producing may help out a first year apprentice or may educate the diyer.

Just my input to the debate.

Why so worked up on this subject? Yes I do like LINE. I'm not suggesting showing electricians how to terminate in a JB. BUT search the forums.....some guidance is definately needed regarding which products to use. I am not going to try trash some members for talking freely and trying to help on the forums - isnt this what the forum is for i.e. sharing information, learning and helping one another without fear of being exposed?
I'd be interested to know which JB's/connectors you use?

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I use Ashley J501, J803, J804 and the good old wago box mainly.

On a search of "Junction Box" on the first page there is only one thread Junction box with no inspection access (just got his BS2381), none specifically asking what JB they should use, just some asking for confirmation on particular maintenance free hager types.

You put in the second post that it is to stimulate a debate, that is what I am doing.

 

[fazhols]

I use Ashley J501, J803, J804 and the good old wago box mainly.

On a search of "Junction Box" on the first page there is only one thread Junction box with no inspection access (just got his BS2381), none specifically asking what JB they should use, just some asking for confirmation on particular maintenance free hager types.

You put in the second post that it is to stimulate a debate, that is what I am doing.

Try searching under some of the more common brands...

Do you think all the "stickys" and pocket guides are a waste? Surely if we can do something to raise the overall standard in the trade its a good thing?

Ashley is a good brand. However, using the checklist, wago box fails Section C so does not meet the requirements of BS7671. Click 100 fails section A. Chocbox fails section B.....

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Wago box conform to bs en 60670 so that is good enough for me, when they are screwed down and the cables are clipped I can't see why you are so against them.

I don't use chocbox or click 100 so not bothered by them.

Stickys are great, it is MY opinion only that I don't see the need for the check list.

Cowboys and diyers don't care about the type of junction box, only the cost.

 

[fazhols]

Correct. Wago Box is certified to BS 60670 - 22. BUT is does not comply with BS 7671 - protection against electric shock if used with WAGO 222 series. Maybe thats good enough for you but you do need to disclose this in your certificates:"Details of departures from BS7671 (regulations 120.3 and 120.4)". This is a LEGAL obligation!

 

[Electro-tech]

woops !

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I have not said that I do not fill out the departures section.

Looks like you better get on the phone to wago as their data sheet shows those lever connectors in an adaptable box with just the cable cleated to the surface out of the box!

I still can't find the "many threads" you referred to!

I still don't see the need for your checklist, however have you spoken to wholesalers about it, will they have them to give out on their counters?

Good luck in getting them to stop selling wagoboxes and chocboxes and only selling ones that you say are approved.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I have just had a look at those line junction box things, having never used them before do they just twist to open?
Is the cable clamp a cable tie?

 

[fazhols]

I have not said that I do not fill out the departures section.

Looks like you better get on the phone to wago as their data sheet shows those lever connectors in an adaptable box with just the cable cleated to the surface out of the box!

I still can't find the "many threads" you referred to!

I still don't see the need for your checklist, however have you spoken to wholesalers about it, will they have them to give out on their counters?

Good luck in getting them to stop selling wagoboxes and chocboxes and only selling ones that you say are approved.

They will never stop selling. We need to make a stand and stop buying products that make our lives more difficult!

 

[fazhols]

I have just had a look at those line junction box things, having never used them before do they just twist to open?
Is the cable clamp a cable tie?

Yes, cable tie used to clamp and one within recess around circumference to lock enclosure closed. Why dont you ask them for a sample?