Do you do jobs for cash, and then not declare it with the taxman? (voters in the poll are private!!!)

[Dustydazzler]

The 'gig' economy is booming where people have a 9-4 day job but do lots of 'paid' work on the side every weekend...I will bet my lunch money nobody declares this work to the HMRC

In fairness most people I know who do 'side work' do so out of necessity to make ends meet , and if they had to pay tax on it then it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.
About 15 years ago the HMRC were going to crack down on the gig cash economy but don't think they ever bothered

 

[telectrix]

whole system is faulty. a single mother who does not work, gets benefits, and can sit on her arse all day watching sky on the 55" flat screen TV, is entitled to free nursery places for under school age kids. my ladd works all hours to try and make ends meet, but as he's working nursery place is £600/month. that's half his wages for 7 days work/week gone.

 

[JK-Electrical]

The 'gig' economy is booming where people have a 9-4 day job but do lots of 'paid' work on the side every weekend...I will bet my lunch money nobody declares this work to the HMRC

In fairness most people I know who do 'side work' do so out of necessity to make ends meet , and if they had to pay tax on it then it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.
About 15 years ago the HMRC were going to crack down on the gig cash economy but don't think they ever bothered

If HMRC were serious about cracking down on the 'gig economy', then they ought to be taking a very close look at the likes of Rated People and MyBuilder where people who have day jobs are openly advertising their electrical services on weekends and weekdays after 4:30 pm. I'm sure there'll be other trades the length and breadth of the country doing exactly the same.

Then there are those who work for themselves, but aren't registered with HMRC as being self-employed. One reason that these guys can continually undercut bona fide contractors is because they don't pay their taxes.

 

[GMES]

I cant get away with cash jobs, everything is purchase orders and Bacs payments, I've got staff, payroll, pensions, van finance etc.
Also as others have said you are so limited to what you can do with it.
True story.... a mate of mine , one man band got a few grand cash so decided to give it the wife to use for shopping , unfortunately about 6 months later got investigated, while looking through his bank account they notice that up until the cash fiddle he had spent about 200.00 a week at Tesco on the family shopping with his bank card then suddenly it stopped. The Tax man pointed out that according to his statement the entire family must not have eaten for about 5 months lol.
They are not stupid people and will always catch a con.
Finally, I may be on my own with this mentality but if you're getting a large tax bill every year which I do!!! Then you're clearly earning the money and doing things right .

 

[Dustydazzler]

I read somewhere that the likes of Google and Amazon pay less than 1p in the pound in UK tax ,This is the true crime

But poor old Dave down the local boozer who took some cash for a re-wire is more likely to get prosecuted

Strange times

 

[Deleted account]

I read somewhere that the likes of Google and Amazon pay less than 1p in the pound in UK tax ,This is the true crime

But poor old Dave down the local boozer who took some cash for a re-wire is more likely to get prosecuted

Strange times

True, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Google is morally wrong but nothing illlegal.

Dave down the local boozer was wrong and illegal.

No sympathy for Dave as he is the guy who always undercuts me on rewires as he has no insurance registaration or even qualifications.
We all know Dave.

 

[telectrix]

look at it another way. say, for arguments sake, i earn £600 in a week, all cash. out of that goes £60 on diesel ( £50 tax), £70 smokes ( £60 tax), £50 beer ( £35 tax). bills and shopping £200 ( £40 tax). that's £185 tax. and y'all wonder why i balk at paying income tax .in any case, now I'm semi-retired, i don't earn enough to break the threshold.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Everyone should just put £12,000 ‘through the books’ and the rest non declared cash...

 

[Zerax]

It's worth noting too that... The tax you pay under Sched E (Employed) is significantly higher than under Sched D (Self Employed)... so all you self employed guys should think yourselves VERY lucky. That may not continue indefinitely...

 

[Deleted account]

The percentages are 56% do on occasion take cash in hand as I type this.

I have to admit I am pleasantly surprised by that, I thought it would be 80-90%.

I bet the plumbers forum has a 90-95%.

It would be interesting to see the final result.

 

[Dustydazzler]

90-95 , more like 100

 

[telectrix]

when you supply tea and biscuits to your cps assessor, does he declare it to hmrc? and do you claim it as a legitimate business bribe expense?

 

[GMES]

when you supply tea and biscuits to your cps assessor, does he declare it to hmrc? and do you claim it as a legitimate business bribe expense?

Reminds me of a former accountant I had, he worked from his home and on introduction he said it was his job to keep me on the straight and narrow, after the meeting he asked for a price to wire his summer house , I gave him a price + vat and yes you guessed it, he then asked how much for cash. ?

 

[ColinACJL]

Do you do jobs for cash, and then not declare it with the taxman? (voters in the poll are private!!!)

Just wondering, as it's 2019, whether there are still guys doing jobs for cash.

As a web business, all my business is paid by BACS in full up front before anything goes ahead. Or Google, who pays me 2 months after I've earned it. On a rolling basis. So it is monthly kinda thing. So there's no dodging tax for me with it. And it has caught me out in the past. Ended up with a bill too big and went bump. Folded that company a while ago.

Wondering if this day in age, when so many invoicing systems are setup direct with accounts systems, that can be accessed by various departments of governments. Whether it's a case of never giving a price in writing via a system, and taking cash, or just all honest days work and paying tax all the way.

Now you don't need to reply to the thread. Just vote. And nobody will ever see who voted.

I'm just curious.

I'll do this on all my forums and see what the % is each year near Xmas. Perhaps check annually what's changing.

(Note that if anybody from the tax office ever asked for the data, we don't record who visits a thread, or who has voted. It just adds a digit to a database like an excel file, and doesn't have a name column in it. So they'd just get lots of 1's in lots of boxes and nothing else)

I am a retired design engineer, mainly circuit diagrams for products. I sort out my relatives and neighbours electrical problems without payment.

 

[pirate]

I'm with Tel on this. Using the same analogy, I earned £100 today, less tax. I put some diesel in my car, buy some cigs and a bottle of gin (modern pirates don't drink rum!), so nothing left from my earnings.
I have done this type of calculation many, many times, both when I was a smoker, and after I quit.
The reality is that many people have a tax rate of over 80%...at my peak (!) it was 88% for my earnings and lifestyle...so 88p in every £ went to the tax man. Clearly, no incentive to earn more, if you work extra hard, ruin your work/lifestyle balance to the detriment of your family and your health.
Sadly, if you live in UK (and it's worse in Scotland, btw) you just have to accept this state of affairs.
Just start with your own income tax rate, then add 20% for VAT on everything you buy from already taxed money, then add NI and fuel tax and alcohol tax and insurance premium tax and soon you will be looking at a high actual rate.
I have written here before about the cash/no VAT scam, so I won't bore you with it again. It's usually a scam though, and it only favours the tradesperson.
Wee story to gladden your heart:
Last week a gas engineer called to service the boiler in my daughter's flat..well, actually to give her a Safety Certificate for her tenants. Job done, but he had to arrange to come back 2 days later for other work. He emailed me his invoice, which was £45 + £9 VAT = £54. I met him 2 days later and as I had cash on me I gave him £55 to settle his invoice, just as he was leaving. He didn't check the money, and I wasn't going to ask him for the £1 change! A minute later he rang the doorbell, handed me back a tenner, ie my extra £1 and the £9 VAT...he didn't need to do that, but you can see where this is going...

 

[Markyd]

Of course i pay tax...so that all the scroungers can laugh at me at 6 oclock in the morning when im leaving for work

 

[Dustydazzler]

Of course i pay tax...so that all the scroungers can laugh at me at 6 oclock in the morning when im leaving for work

They won’t be up then , most wont be up much before midday...

 

[Andrew Hunter]

Try this for size, I had a freind (of sorts) who's wife was a "TAXMAN" who only ever pays in cash. He also has a buissness that is predominantly cash, done work at both their house and he's buissness for many years. where do you think all the helfull dodging information came from!

 

[EalingBadger]

when you supply tea and biscuits to your cps assessor, does he declare it to hmrc? and do you claim it as a legitimate business bribe expense?

The VAT people are banned from taking even so much as a cup of tea from you when they come visiting for one of their nice and friendly inspections.

It would seem that HMRC is worried that their inspectors heads will be turned and that they might then "overlook" the postage stamps that you "accidentally" claimed VAT back on last year.

 

[happysteve]

I do quite a few small jobs, mostly domestic. I accept cash on the day, cheque on the day, or (preferably) I invoice after the job by email, and accept direct bank transfer.

Every job, whatever payment, goes through the books.

I'm not VAT registered, sole trader, so accounts (tax return) is relatively simple.

Every job is in my Google calendar. Also Google tracks (roughly) where I go if I don't use satnav, and exactly where I go if I do. There's a digital footprint everywhere I go. If it's for a quote, it's down as such in the calendar. It all matches the mileage I record in the notebook in the van (those little IET Regs notebooks are great for that!)

I keep a manual note of cash/cheque jobs in my notebook, referenced to jobs, and cross-referenced to when I pay them in to the bank.

I do a receipt (cash or cheque) or invoice (bank transfer) for every job, even if it's just a tenner; I always offer a receipt, and even if the customer isn't bothered about one, I do one anyway for my records.

It's a pain paying in the cash/cheques to the bank.

But I sleep very easy at night.

I wouldn't want the option of paying by cash (or cheque) to go away, because some of my customers are in their '80s and '90s, and they don't cope well with anything electronic. I haven't "invested" in a card reader, as I dislike the idea of someone (who isn't HMRC) taking a cut. I dislike the idea that if you take cash for a job, you're automatically assumed to be not declaring it. It's easy: just play it straight.

 

[Deleted account]

That

I do quite a few small jobs, mostly domestic. I accept cash on the day, cheque on the day, or (preferably) I invoice after the job by email, and accept direct bank transfer.

Every job, whatever payment, goes through the books.

I'm not VAT registered, sole trader, so accounts (tax return) is relatively simple.

Every job is in my Google calendar. Also Google tracks (roughly) where I go if I don't use satnav, and exactly where I go if I do. There's a digital footprint everywhere I go. If it's for a quote, it's down as such in the calendar. It all matches the mileage I record in the notebook in the van (those little IET Regs notebooks are great for that!)

I keep a manual note of cash/cheque jobs in my notebook, referenced to jobs, and cross-referenced to when I pay them in to the bank.

I do a receipt (cash or cheque) or invoice (bank transfer) for every job, even if it's just a tenner; I always offer a receipt, and even if the customer isn't bothered about one, I do one anyway for my records.

It's a pain paying in the cash/cheques to the bank.

But I sleep very easy at night.

I wouldn't want the option of paying by cash (or cheque) to go away, because some of my customers are in their '80s and '90s, and they don't cope well with anything electronic. I haven't "invested" in a card reader, as I dislike the idea of someone (who isn't HMRC) taking a cut. I dislike the idea that if you take cash for a job, you're automatically assumed to be not declaring it. It's easy: just play it straight.

That could have been me writing the above. Exactly as I think and do.

 

[Zerax]

I wonder what taxi drivers do ? I don't mean uber where it's all electronic... I mean your traditional taxi that is mostly cash... do they declare it all ? who's to say if their mileage is trade or private ?...

 

[ElectroChem]

There are two kinds of electricians.

The ones who do the occasional (or not so occasional) job that HMRC doesn't need to know about, and liars.

 

[Deleted account]

There are two kinds of electricians.

The ones who do the occasional (or not so occasional) job that HMRC doesn't need to know about, and liars.

Clearly there are 3 kinds of electrician because I don’t fit either of those criteria.

 

[telectrix]

slightly off topic, but a mate of my son is a roofer, employed paye by a reputable firm. he does not have a bank, no bacs, and is the only employee who gets his wages in cash, in a pay packet on Friday afternoon. takes me back years thinking about it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

slightly off topic, but a mate of my son is a roofer, employed paye by a reputable firm. he does not have a bank, no bacs, and is the only employee who gets his wages in cash, in a pay packet on Friday afternoon. takes me back years thinking about it.

My dad when a factor electrician (employed) used to come home every Friday with a small brown envelope with his weeks wages in cash and tip it into a large dish on the work top.
This was the 1980s thou

 

[Zerax]

A mate of mine... when he started work, he had a cheque every week... As he was still living at home, he didn't really have any outgoings... so he used to save them up. Then one day he gets called into the office... they asked if he wouldn't mind taking them to the bank as it was causing a problem in the finance department. He didn't realise you had to back em !

 

[Edtwozeronine]

If you think about it anything you buy with cash (I think apart from food) has VAT on it, so you'd be getting taxed spending untaxed money anyway. You can't escape it unless you do VAT fraud, not recommended after reading an article about a guy who pretended to sell a bunch of laptops on his website and claimed the VAT back. Banged up for years!
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My dad when a factor electrician (employed) used to come home every Friday with a small brown envelope with his weeks wages in cash and tip it into a large dish on the work top.
This was the 1980s thou

That reminds me of Bread, the old TV series.

 

[GMES]

not recommended after reading an article about a guy who pretended to sell a bunch of laptops on his website and claimed the VAT back. Banged up for years!

If he sold them he would owe vat not claim it.

 

[Zerax]

If he sold them he would owe vat not claim it.

It sounds like classic "carousel fraud"... goods are imported from abroad without VAT, then sold multiple times through various companies (with Input and Output VAT) then the final company exports them reclaiming the VAT... often to the same company they were imported from initially...

 

[Edtwozeronine]

It sounds like classic "carousel fraud"... goods are imported from abroad without VAT, then sold multiple times through various companies (with Input and Output VAT) then the final company exports them reclaiming the VAT... often to the same company they were imported from initially...

Oh is that how it works, i thought businesses reclaimed VAT on things they sold, or is that only applicable to things bought for business use like a computer and printer?

 

[Zerax]

Oh is that how it works, i thought businesses reclaimed VAT on things they sold, or is that only applicable to things bought for business use like a computer and printer?

Businesses reclaim 'Input VAT' on things they've purchased, then pay to HMRC the 'Output VAT' on things they sell. Normally the value of sales is higher than the value of purchases, so it's a net payment to HMRC... but often for a company just starting, they have to purchase tools, vans etc... so they may have a net repayment of VAT from HMRC.

 

[Intoelectrics]

I Have a friend who is a tax inspector, we had this conversation years ago. He concentrated his main efforts on complete non payers and high end tax dodgers/evaders.
At that time they/he accepted that there is always going to be an "acceptable" percentage that slips through the system.

Personally I'm a bit torn between morality and "what the hell everyone else is doing it". I get upset when I see people making loads of cash by continually ripping off other people or the system with a selfish attitude. Then I think to myself who is the fool, the person working hard making a honest living or the person winging it and making a load of easy cash. Lets face it, this happens all the way up to the greedy big wigs, we see it everyday! look at Thomas Cook, the big wigs have made an absolute mint while all the honest folk pay the price.

I've yet to meet a honest self-made millionaire, hell some of these crooks even get Knighthoods for it! I know a Knighted "self made" billionaire very well, he was an associate of my fathers years back. He is the biggest crook you could ever meet and spent years tax and vat evading and committing fraud. He tried to convince my father to invest at one point early on, but my father is to honest a man to deal with the guilt. I won't mention his name but he is a well known entrepreneur.

 

[Edtwozeronine]

I Have a friend who is a tax inspector, we had this conversation years ago. He concentrated his main efforts on complete non payers and high end tax dodgers/evaders.
At that time they/he accepted that there is always going to be an "acceptable" percentage that slips through the system.

Personally I'm a bit torn between morality and "what the hell everyone else is doing it". I get upset when I see people making loads of cash by continually ripping off other people or the system with a selfish attitude. Then I think to myself who is the fool, the person working hard making a honest living or the person winging it and making a load of easy cash. Lets face it, this happens all the way up to the greedy big wigs, we see it everyday! look at Thomas Cook, the big wigs have made an absolute mint while all the honest folk pay the price.

I've yet to meet a honest self-made millionaire, hell some of these crooks even get Knighthoods for it! I know a Knighted "self made" billionaire very well, he was an associate of my fathers years back. He is the biggest crook you could ever meet and spent years tax and vat evading and committing fraud. He tried to convince my father to invest at one point early on, but my father is to honest a man to deal with the guilt. I won't mention his name but he is a well known entrepreneur.

He doesn't happen to say "you're fired!" A lot does he?

 

[Intoelectrics]

He doesn't happen to say "you're fired!" A lot does he?

No, not quite as well known as that person but known well enough. But didn't that particular person start out "wheeling and dealing" for "cash"?
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My point being that before any of us get on our high moral horses the amount some of us might swindle by doing the odd cash job is pittance compared to the millions that the high flyers swindle. Then when someone gets found out it all becomes some sort of big scandal as if no one else does it

 

[Dustydazzler]

Have found this thread quite interesting and it got me thinking...

For example my parents have a monthly window cleaner who they leave cash out for , they have a gardener a few times a year they pay cash to , the guy who cleans the gutters twice a year gets some cash.

I wonder if any of this cash ever gets declared

I probably know the answer already...

 

[Pretty Mouth]

a b c d e

 

[GMES]

They may all be honest tradesman for all we know.
Some trades only deal in cash, market traders, burger Van's mobile car cleaners/ valeters, mobile hairdressers and the list goes on but it doesnt make them all bent.
Do they declare it all, possibly not but they will probably declare most of it.

 

[Markyd]

Who cares .......I wanna know if they have a cpc in their lighting circuit..

 

[Dustydazzler]

Who...? My parents or the window cleaners ?

Are you offering a partial rewire for cash