Discuss EV Charging post AMD2 in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Ab
Have you actually asked Matt:e (and similar) about this point?

I would be very surprised if they had not complied with the various UK regulations for such a product, especially as they are sold through retailers like CEF, etc, who are likely to do due diligence on suppliers.
Absolutely, many times.

They make excuses and point to the LVD.

Initially they did not even supply a DoC, now they do. They are still not legal unless CE marked/certified.

Truth is no one cares and the powers that be are intentionally blind to the issue as the electrician that fits it will take the fall.
 
Have you actually asked Matt:e (and similar) about this point?

I would be very surprised if they had not complied with the various UK regulations for such a product, especially as they are sold through retailers like CEF, etc, who are likely to do due diligence on suppliers.

One other and important thing to remember is there is no BS or BSEN standard for an O-PEN device.

This is on the cards but does not currently exist.

Most claim compliance to LVD etc, some also EMCD.

They all need EMCD & PLC certification as they are electronic and programable devices.

LVD is likely a result of 61439 devices etc.
 
One other and important thing to remember is there is no BS or BSEN standard for an O-PEN device.

This is on the cards but does not currently exist.

Most claim compliance to LVD etc, some also EMCD.
The lack of a standard for O-PEN is a very important point, but it is totally different from the CE marking aspect.

All a CE mark is showing is the manufacturer claims to meet the relevant EU directives. In this case I expect the only ones that apply are the LVD (for electrical power safety) and the EMCD (for surge protection and lack of radio frequency interference).

The lack of information and performance comparisons on who they work ought to be addressed!

I know some O-PEN devices follow the idea covered in amendment 1 (I think) that simply checks if the supply voltage is out of range implying an open PEN might be happening, but that is far from foolproof.

Others like the Zappi charger are, I believe, RCD-like but look at the unbalance on live and CPC combined, indicating that something is going stray (which could be a live leak to true Earth as traditional RCD detect, or it might be a shock via elevated CPC potential from an open PEN fault, etc). However, that is not really meeting the ADS concept as it only will trip when something (or someone!) has completed the circuit, it would not disconnect simply on open PEN itself. Although you could combine that approach with the out-of-range sensing above for greater fault coverage.

And some (older?) chargers have earth rods, but I don't know it they use that to sense CPC to true Earth voltage and disconnect all conductors (live and CPC) rather like the old VOELCB, or they are basically just a "TT in a box" device with a RCD and the rod is providing the final charger circuit's means of earthing.
 
If products are on tht market illegally, why not approach trading standards / HSE? If its a simple case of not being legal to sell yhrn it'll be a quick win for them, or are thry just not interested? Would have thought with it being 'emerging tech' and the drive to an EV no pun intended future they'd be on this like flies on 💩
 
OP, I presume you have raised this with the relevant authorities. What is their take on it? Their inputwill be of more use than that of a forum of electricians.
 
Are there any statistics with regard to the occurance of open PEN faults or are these devices a belt and braces approach to a problem which has a minimal chance of occurring
As a aside it begs the question why we don't have devices to check for the loss of the suppliers earth on TN-S supplies which I have found more often than an open PEN
 
Are there any statistics with regard to the occurance of open PEN faults or are these devices a belt and braces approach to a problem which has a minimal chance of occurring
I wondered that as well and @Julie. provided an answer of about 350/year:

As a aside it begs the question why we don't have devices to check for the loss of the suppliers earth on TN-S supplies which I have found more often than an open PEN
An open TN-S earth is not automatically rising to significant voltage, so it needs a 2nd fault to become life-threatening. True, such a 2nd fault might happen at the same time (e.g. partly severed cable, etc) but in that case a conventional RCD should disconnect.
 
I'm also somewhat sceptical these devices are being sold without the appropriate certification. Not withstanding that BS7671 has given them scope to function or not with some broad specifications.
 
I wondered that as well and @Julie. provided an answer of about 350/year:
But that figure was never explained when Julie heard it and looking around the web it is difficult to substantiate any meaningful numbers for the occurrance of an open PEN
An open TN-S earth is not automatically rising to significant voltage, so it needs a 2nd fault to become life-threatening. True, such a 2nd fault might happen at the same time (e.g. partly severed cable, etc) but in that case a conventional RCD should disconnect.
But with any extraneous metalwork bonded to a MET that isn't earthed it could cause some problems in an installation
And then we go looking for another statistic on how many installations have yet to have RCD's / RCBO's installed
 

Reply to EV Charging post AMD2 in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

Can we as electricians pick up on a broken PEN conductor? I’ve installed an EV charger for FIL, and everything tested fine, but there is a fault...
Replies
8
Views
2K
Hi. Not sure if it's the right place to ask, so won't be upset if it gets removed. Apologies if the terminology (PEN/PME/etc) is used...
Replies
44
Views
7K
So I am a fully qualified spark with my own company, however I also have a few properties I rent out. One of my tenants asked if they can have an...
Replies
84
Views
11K
As the title says, does a three-pin socket (external) used as charging point need an earth electrode or open PEN fault? Are mode 1 and mode 2...
Replies
17
Views
5K
Somewhere along the line I picked up a suggestion from a forum posting or two that the DNO does not like you to connect an earthing rod to his...
Replies
14
Views
4K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock