How to gain Heavy Industrial and PLC experience

[grantr37]

I dont know how the well versed would view this course but wanting to have something to back up knowledge gained through experienece, I recently took this course to gain a bit of background on PLC's.

Scantime Online Course - Introduction to PLCs




I found it very informative TBH and will consider the other courses in the future.

what kind of certificate printout did you get from them? they have a siemens one there, could be used to prove siemens experience for the pesky agencies that don't seem to want to accept a 7 year old college certificate.....

 

[vaughant]

No S5 would be my only issue with the course advertised but for £40 you can't go wring,S5 is like an old computer system really and a pig to get connected to if you haven't used it much before but it's still a very very common system and you'll see it in a lot of pre 1998 machinery,I quite like it but it's a bit glitchy and slow and you do need to have a clue about flags,timers,set/reset flags and general logic control but it's not impossible to learn.
S7 is a superb system that's extremely popular right now,has been for many years and not due to be phased out for a long time.
Hardware faults are very rare on Siemens,the worst you ever get is a program stop or a comms fault,neither of which take much to figure out.
S7 is great to fault find on,easy to get online and quick to use,only drawbacks are it can be a bit long winded to get to the origin of the fault,especially if it's been converted over from S5 which is common,then you end up with sections in STL only which is a pain to read but if it's S7 from the start it's great.
Allen Bradley is very easy to read and change,but again an ar5e to get online with unless its a dedicated laptop pre set up.
LOGO is very basic but fine and rs logix is a nice easy way of viewing a particular system.
grant37r put some interesting info up there although I doubt the average industrial spark would get too involved with pcb and EEPROM much but still important to know these things.
90% of industrial is using the monitor as a fault finding tool which I love!!!

 

[Knobhead]

For fault finding give me Modsoft anyday. The search and trace is so quick to use.

 

[vaughant]

For fault finding give me Modsoft anyday. The search and trace is so quick to use.

Rs logix is like that,you just type in say "conveyor 4" and it gives you every occurrence of conveyor 4 within the program.
Siemens S7 is a touch more tricky ie you need an input/output number or m code etc but you can search that in any fc (function call) of the program.
S5 is more tricky as you need to sometimes be in a different port or CPU of the base unit as it won't communicate otherwise,can throw a novice off.
I suppose it's what your used to really,as long as you understand how it works your in with 1/2 a chance.

 

[vaughant]

Typical s5 drawing

Will put some S7 up tommorow.

 

[Knobhead]

I've been trying to get a screen shot of Modsoft with no joy. You've given me an idea, go back to basics, print and then scan.
I always try to over complicate the simple.

View attachment 15148

 

[Knobhead]

years ago they used to teach in college using ladder diagrams and everything was coded in low level OP code(machine code), hand coded with a great deal more thinking about timers+WDT's, interrupts, jumps, no ops,registers, memory locations, pointers etc.....now everything gets programmed using SDK's (Software Development Kits- AKA compilers) and high level language, usually C, so that a lot of the issues with different PLC chips get ironed out by the use of manufacturer designed programming software tools instead of relying on in depth learning for each new device....the new PLC's and microcontrollers all have inbuilt memory and timers, which the older ones had on a separate card....

I think you should read The History of the PLC by Dick Morley

Good reading for anyone.

 

[vaughant]

Some S7 for ya!!!

ladder

Fbd

 

[grantr37]

have you read the old book "the mighty micro" by christopher evans (1979) its quite interesting what he thought would happen back then, as a lot of it did.... worth a look for interest purposes.....will be on ebay and amazon...

 

[grantr37]

back when processors were called "Transputers"

 

[Robotstar5]

Some S7 for ya!!!

ladder

Fbd

You missed STL!

 

[vaughant]

You missed STL!

Delibrately, lets not scare the lad off just yet!!!!

I`m no fan but sometimes it`s the only way to view things, I can get through it but it takes me a lot longer.

 

[Robotstar5]

We had a couple of machines installed a few years ago built by a Dutch company, they have a custom spreadsheet type program running inside S7, after half an hour my brain went into meltdown trying to understand it!.

 

[i=p/u]

back to basics and sign up on engineering for beginners...

 

[mheyes]

You need to understand hardware before software This is a small panel for a conveyor system It has ethernet comms that are quite complex. Start with the basics and work up but remember YOU CANT BE GREAT AT EVERYTHING

 

[sbrown2]

I think a lot of people have said it in this thread and certainly in others. Its about grasping the basics. You must have these basics by the sounds of it. What is your apprenticeship title? What are your qualifications? If they are electrical, allied with the installation experience you have, you sound like you are ready to take the next step. If you are younger experience is important but many companies will take your age into account.
My company has opened a site in Aston with an older Maintenance Manager and he has four/five technicians between 24 and 33. The younger the better he says - I hope that sounds ok!!!!!!!

 

[vaughant]

View attachment 15339You need to understand hardware before software This is a small panel for a conveyor system It has ethernet comms that are quite complex. Start with the basics and work up but remember YOU CANT BE GREAT AT EVERYTHING

Good stuff.
In ford we used a lot of Allen Bradley kit with the comms system and a regular fault was "comms error 7" which meant stopping then restarting the plc!!!
i never really knew what it meant as it was so easy to reset but after a few years of blindly resetting it we started to work out what was going on.
The cause was these Siemens units we used for driving motors (basically a glorified forward/reverse contactor in a smart case) had copper links behind for the various power and control circuits.
With time,the vibration of where they were mounted made them work a touch loose,hence losing the comms link and causing the fault,sometimes for literally 1/2 a second but that was enough.
I started mounting them then on rubber backings to take some of the vibration out and it greatly improved it.
Clever system though,as of course an automation line can be sometimes miles long,but at least then from any workstation you could see the fault on the hmi and go straight to it.
Certainly worth learning as above,get the hardware right first.

 

[Knobhead]

If you enter in to an established company that is already using PLC’s or what ever, I’m sorry but you’re in at the deep end. Most companies will put you with an experienced guy for a while. If he’s any good he will take a back seat as soon as possible, just giving you hints when you’re going of course. The last one I was with took it to the extreme, he stayed in the mess room drinking tea while I was doing the blue fly impression.
One of the most important things is to learn the process. As with any process the operator can be you’re best friend or sworn enemy. Those that will give the right information and those that want to sit on their arse while you flounder around.
To go in to industry now, PLC’s are a fact of life, how far you go with them is between you and the company. Some will have Fred in the office that does all mods, other like the last one I worked for will give you more than enough rope to hang yourself.

 

[Timbits]

Alright lads,

Havnt been on in a while but have got stuck into a bit more of a proper job. Just got my first start as a rope access electrician at a coal power station. Its not 100% electrical and not the PLC stuff I was hoping for, however money is good and its long term so couldnt say no. Think the brain frying mentioned above will have to be some light reading just for now! But will definitely be reading up on and hopefully starting to get a grasp on the basics.


Cheers once again to all

 

[vaughant]

If you enter in to an established company that is already using PLC’s or what ever, I’m sorry but you’re in at the deep end. Most companies will put you with an experienced guy for a while. If he’s any good he will take a back seat as soon as possible, just giving you hints when you’re going of course. The last one I was with took it to the extreme, he stayed in the mess room drinking tea while I was doing the blue fly impression.
One of the most important things is to learn the process. As with any process the operator can be you’re best friend or sworn enemy. Those that will give the right information and those that want to sit on their arse while you flounder around.
To go in to industry now, PLC’s are a fact of life, how far you go with them is between you and the company. Some will have Fred in the office that does all mods, other like the last one I worked for will give you more than enough rope to hang yourself.

.
Quite possibly one of the truest statements ever written on this forum,no surprise it's from you tony.
In my previous job in ford I'd be amazed if I used the plc once a year,we had a department for that,yet in this job I reckon it's out once every few days,it's gone now that I just remember the s5 login procedure off by heart which is usually a bit of a pig to do!!!!
and timbits,great news kid!!!!
a job is a job mate,well done.