MCS Quality Management System

[Markc]

Your last post does now make more sense. It's not how I first thought that you can use an existing system. It is still up to the assessed company to provide proof from first contact to completion that they were the installing company, all be it via sub contracted labour on certain aspects. So on that first job it would be a case of not only ensuring faith from the client to the contractor that they will achieve MCS but also fund sub contracted labour for the installation.

If however it isn't the case I don't understand how you can possibly use someone else's installation to gain MCS like you said in an earlier post? Am I correct is assuming if you know of an installer who is MCS you could contact them to ask if you can use their installation as an example of works for you to achieve MCS rather than having the expense of installing a system yourself? If that is correct it is that, that sticks in the throat a bit.

Thanks for the last post Treadwarm

 

[SolarCity]

Don't worry, I won't shoot the messenger

I don't agree that the QMS equals customer satisfaction. I don't agree that it helps small businesses in any way either.

So if the MCS scheme does not consider technical ability (it cannot, unless it judges an installation) then it is useless.

For example, I have worked with plenty of sparks who are 17th Edition but does this mean they are good sparks? Of course not. If it did then we could do away with the NICEIC, ECA and NAPIT.

 

[Treadwarm]

The question is how would the assesor know if you have used somebody elses installation ??? Impossible for them to check, but they can asses that you understand all the areas of the standard and test you on this during your assesment.

In reality if you adopt an mcs standard qms then your company will operate to a high standard for documentation ( see easy mcs in Chester ) and the procedures will en-sure you know how to work.

Only during your annual audit when they pick your installations at random to asses could they check if you are installing to the correct standard. Furthur more if a client feels your installation is poor they can report you to REAL who could arrange an audit.

Put it this way you could be the best spark in the world with the highest standard qms but you don't have the cash to pay for the products to put them on your own house, or find anybody to take a punt on someone who is not mcs accredited.

Sorry to say it guys but yes, you can get mcs from an existing installation I know because I have done it myself.

U do need a good quality management system and easy mcs seem to be the best for this!!

 

[Markc]

Hi Treadwarm, Is it PV you have achieved MCS on for the three companies you mentioned earlier? The reason for asking is, is there an avenue for someone with a PV system to recoup some of the cost by "letting out" their own system? As they say if you can't beat them join them!

 

[SolarCity]

The question is how would the assesor know if you have used somebody elses installation ??? Impossible for them to check, but they can asses that you understand all the areas of the standard and test you on this during your assesment.

Could this not be said about a lot of assessments? If you use someone elses work as your own to achieve NICEIC accreditation then you are guilty of fraud.

In reality if you adopt an mcs standard qms then your company will operate to a high standard for documentation ( see easy mcs in Chester ) and the procedures will en-sure you know how to work.

It seems to me, and I could well be wrong, that companies are being led by the hand through the QMS process. They may well end up with a high standard document at the end but there is nothing stopping cowboy outfits from getting involved if what you say is correct. That cannot possibly be right.

 

[MorganPVI]

Passing off someone elses work as your own would be fraud, using a sub contractor to install for you would be 'technically' fine. I think it depends how your business is setup, some companies will have employees, some will use CIS labour as required, others will be what I term "salesman with an MCS umbrella".
Pretty sure we'll see a lot of salesmen selling systems this coming year.

No offence to you Treadwarm but you do seem to be very vocal about easy mcs, imo you can never really fully understand a complex quality management system unless you write it yourself. I'd certainly not want a company fitting panels on my roof that have never installed a system for accreditation, no matter what the MCS assesor approves.

 

[Treadwarm]

Hi Treadwarm, Is it PV you have achieved MCS on for the three companies you mentioned earlier? The reason for asking is, is there an avenue for someone with a PV system to recoup some of the cost by "letting out" their own system? As they say if you can't beat them join them!

I passed with Heat pumps for a company in Doncaster, and for my current company (Treadwarm) then PV and Solar thermal for a company in North Wales.

Not heard of anybody doing this but it may be an option.

 

[Markc]

I passed with Heat pumps for a company in Doncaster, and for my current company (Treadwarm) then PV and Solar thermal for a company in North Wales.

Yet one week ago........

I am just looking at getting my MCS in place for PV but do not have the time or knowledge to create a QMS, I have heard of a company called easymcs Cost & Pain Free MCS Installer Accreditation & Certification

they seem to produce a QMS bespoke for your company and mentor you through the process. I have spoken to a few people and these guys seem to be the biggest in the market at the moment, do you know much if anything about them? they have said the cost is £495 which when you consider a course is generally £150 and then a day not installing is another £250 + i would still have to build it with most of these seminars i think it is a good deal?

They have also offered a £50 discount to mcs assessment with NIC EIC do you know if this is legitimate?

I'm trully sorry Threadwarm but I think it may be time to come clean. A very cunning marketing scheme you have in place there. Easy MCS will be pleased. I like the plan and I have been following the posts with interest.

With the greatest if respect Mark C.

 

[Treadwarm]

to be honest I was simple asked how did you get around needing to show and installation without anybody letting you on the roof without MCS.

If you can prove you have the knowledge and been on the necessary training, your assessment is then a test of your capability via a series of questions for you to answer (do we agree on this) . before you answer ask yourself how you can gain part p ( 3 day course, £300) this includes a practical exam on a training rig. how do you gain 17th edition (5 day course £500 - £700) including a practical on a training rig and written exam. both come with annual assessments.

MCS is no different but everyone seems to want to make it more difficult, your mcs assessment is more in-depth than the other you have been on because they want to en-sure you are not only capable of designing the system but also dealing with the customer correclty from a document point of view.

I think that in this forum MCS is being confused, it seems that it is thought of as a mark on your quality of INSTALLATION capability, if so then why would you require the other electrical certification ??? Answer you have part p ,17th and working at heights for for this, MCS is to ensure you run your business correctly if you then want to do PV you must have 17th or heat pump G3 etc. you will be assessed on these separately in some cases by the same CB (certification body)

This is why the majority of MCS assessors are ex-ISO assessors and the reason your QMS must be of a high standard, and include proof of your capabilities as an electrical engineer to carry out your work.

Also the reason why I recommend Easy MCS other than the fact I have had my QMS from them and worked with them to understand the needs of the installer, is due to the fact that they actually mentor you through the introduction of your QMS as well as supplying you with the pack. Some companies do just supply you with a bundle of docs and say crack on, Easy MCS definitely do not.

Once again guys this is not meant as a cheat for MCS but as assistance in understanding the true meaning behind MCS. Trust me I do know the standards, and also people on the MCS steering group so please any help I can be just ask.

 

[Treadwarm]

Yet one week ago........



I'm trully sorry Threadwarm but I think it may be time to come clean. A very cunning marketing scheme you have in place there. Easy MCS will be pleased. I like the plan and I have been following the posts with interest.

With the greatest if respect Mark C.

Yes Mark fair point I did advise i would recommend them on the forum to gain some interest for them, in all fairness they did do me a deal on my QMS but I would not be on here promoting them if the service was crap. I do know some of the people at easy MCS but i can assure you they are well worth speaking to when looking to gain mcs.

I hope i am not being seen as a cheats way to gain mcs as i only came on here to give help rather and advise people on gaining mcs and that it is not as difficult or costly as everybody makes out.