New licenses?????

[Jabbajaws]

My college tutor has recently informed a fellow former student that as from next year, all sparkys in the trade will be required to have a new license, of some kind, permitting us to carry out electrical work.

It is the first thing ive heard about this anywhere and wanted to ask anyone in the forums that may know more, whether or not this is true...

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

when did he tell him that??
april fools day maybe

 

[Deleted member 9648]

when did he tell him that??
april fools day maybe

Could be....but then nothing would surprise me,this government are constantly thinking of new ways to screw more money out of us and have total control of everything.
I can see how this would work,existing courses passed will not qualify,bring in a new qualification everyone has to pass...KERCHING!!
Licence issued for a fee...KERCHING!!!
Renewable every year with a refresher course every two years....KERCHING...KERCHING...KERCHING!!!!
More money screwed from the working bloke to keep all those labour voters ,who have never done a days work in their lives, in the manner they have grown accustomed to....

 

[acat]

Strong words wirepuller but TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Chris

 

[rocker]

Absolutely true. I really hope that was an April Fools joke, I'm starting to get a bit fed up with this now. Apparently 18th ed next year, what are they going to change?? Probably a few zones by twenty millimeters but we will all have to pay for the course, then the exam, then the licence, then the scheme...... really getting fed up with this country, hoping for a regime change in May but it will never happen. Sometimes can see the benefits of working under a wandering star.....

Or maybe I'll just push off to another country....

 

[Spudnik]

There is talk of them doing away with "RCD's on everything" etc.

Not sure how reliable that is tho.

 

[Notsosmart]

There is talk of them doing away with "RCD's on everything" etc.

Not sure how reliable that is tho.

Back to the 16th edition then

 

[c.p.c]

Could be....but then nothing would surprise me,this government are constantly thinking of new ways to screw more money out of us and have total control of everything.
I can see how this would work,existing courses passed will not qualify,bring in a new qualification everyone has to pass...KERCHING!!
Licence issued for a fee...KERCHING!!!
Renewable every year with a refresher course every two years....KERCHING...KERCHING...KERCHING!!!!
More money screwed from the working bloke to keep all those labour voters ,who have never done a days work in their lives, in the manner they have grown accustomed to....

Bang on the money mr wirepuller.

If you want to make money at the sparky game.forget it .Open up a training center.

 

[Jabbajaws]

I never considered that it may have been an april fool, as im not sure exactly when he was told this.

And please please tell me that it isnt true that the 18th Edition is out next year. Whats the big idea with the IET if this is true?

Are they trying to cream more money out of us? as the 17th regs were about 70 quid when they first came out.

And does anyone know, are we still on the On-Site Guide with the red cover, or have they updated that yet as well???

 

[acat]

I bet they hand forgotten about the OSG until your post reminded them so I guess thats is on the way now as well. Pretty soon we will have to have a licence to ever apply for a licence and no doubt to get it more courses more money etc etc.

Then along comes the cowboy who dont care and is half the price we are the current trend is to get rid of the professional tradesman with costs and give all the work to the cowboys


Chris

 

[ian.settle1]

The will be amendments as they have done previous before they bring out a new edition

 

[deano12929]

Hi that all my tutor has told me is that as of september you cannot enrol on the 2330 and have to be working in the trade to gain or start the new nvq qualification. No mention of any further licenses needed.

This being as all funding is stopped to colleges.

As an adult learner it has stopped me in my quest to further my skills as im juggling work and college at the mo like most.

Deano

 

[Guest123]

Licenses....more pie in the sky surely.....

 

[Phil]

a licence, oh thought that was a government thing.... licence to print money. maybe they could drop it on the id card, and then amend it to a passport when they want to re-print it at a further date. maybe the nic could release a dvd and a book so we all know how to fill in the application form. i am going to need a new bookcase with all the paper and books sat on it

 

[MvP Electrics]

what ever happens i hope they make the public more aware so customers get scared and only use electricians with licenses. just like what they did with corgi/gas safe. I dont mind paying the extra money for something like that.

 

[Phil]

what ever happens i hope they make the public more aware so customers get scared and only use electricians with licenses. just like what they did with corgi/gas safe. I dont mind paying the extra money for something like that.

true. they would be better off doing it through the jib if they are going to do it. at least it will have the grading on and save another card.time will tell.
agree with the above it would be worth it IF they do make people aware and might even give genuine people a chance instead of the fly bys

 

[lloyd1980]

There is talk of them doing away with "RCD's on everything" etc.

Not sure how reliable that is tho.

there is no requirment at the moment for RCD's to be on EVERYTHING
at least 4 examples I can think of
cables clipped directly to surface
saftey circuit ie fire alarm
designated final circuit with a specificaly labelled outlet advising non rcd protected (circuit for fridge etc)
if the premesis is ocupied by electricaly trained personell ie you as the qualified spark in YOUR house
technically in any electricians house no circuit is required to be on an rcd as you are trained.

I do feel its a protection racket tho
by following 7671 you are exceeding the electricity at work regs which is the statutory document they would use to prosecute if anything went wrong.
now the 16th edition exceeded the EAWR so can anyone tell me there was anything UNSAFE about the 16th edition? parts of it were more safe you could argue with the omission of crossbonding in the 17th
GOD knows what petty sentence they will alter or colour they will change the book to just to squeeze another 150 quid out of you plus the 70 quid the book costs

if people wired to the 16th edition now you are by far exceeding the EAWR and could not be prosecuted
I had this argument with many tutors of courses and noone has a definative answer
they all seem to say well thats just the way it is with a shrug!!!!!!!!!
we are cucified in this country for trying to make money
i should have done plastering - van - trowel - plaster - job done

 

[wattsup]

Oh well... more ink for printer, anyone want a liscense?...a tenner each

 

[rocker]

there is no requirment at the moment for RCD's to be on EVERYTHING
at least 4 examples I can think of
cables clipped directly to surface
saftey circuit ie fire alarm
designated final circuit with a specificaly labelled outlet advising non rcd protected (circuit for fridge etc)
if the premesis is ocupied by electricaly trained personell ie you as the qualified spark in YOUR house
technically in any electricians house no circuit is required to be on an rcd as you are trained.

I do feel its a protection racket tho
by following 7671 you are exceeding the electricity at work regs which is the statutory document they would use to prosecute if anything went wrong.
now the 16th edition exceeded the EAWR so can anyone tell me there was anything UNSAFE about the 16th edition? parts of it were more safe you could argue with the omission of crossbonding in the 17th
GOD knows what petty sentence they will alter or colour they will change the book to just to squeeze another 150 quid out of you plus the 70 quid the book costs

if people wired to the 16th edition now you are by far exceeding the EAWR and could not be prosecuted
I had this argument with many tutors of courses and noone has a definative answer
they all seem to say well thats just the way it is with a shrug!!!!!!!!!
we are cucified in this country for trying to make money
i should have done plastering - van - trowel - plaster - job done

I've never thought of that before, but you're right following even 16th ed massively exceeds electricity at work and that is really our only statuatory baseline. Mind you, regarding your plastering idea I have it on faily good authority that replaserting a room will soon warrant permission from building control. All plasterers no doubt will soon have to enrol on a 'part q' scheme.....

 

[Risteard]

true. they would be better off doing it through the jib if they are going to do it.

The only thing I heard a few months ago was that JIB (ECS) cards may become a legal requirement, i.e. a licence. If that was to be done I would be quite happy about it, to be honest.

There is no merit in them setting up another scheme as a licence, however.

 

[Risteard]

technically in any electricians house no circuit is required to be on an rcd as you are trained.

Not true. It specifically does not apply to domestic premises.

Also I'm not sure what you mean about BS7671 "exceeding" the Electricity at Work Regulations.

It simply states that compliance with BS7671 is LIKELY to achieve compliance with the Electricity at Work Regulations.

 

[ian.settle1]

The only thing I heard a few months ago was that JIB (ECS) cards may become a legal requirement, i.e. a licence. If that was to be done I would be quite happy about it, to be honest.

There is no merit in them setting up another scheme as a licence, however.

A lot off people will be moaning if JIB run it as unless they have NVQ 3 they won't get a electrician grading only improver that is why a lot off people are not getting a ECS card from them

 

[Risteard]

A lot off people will be moaning if JIB run it as unless they have NVQ 3 they won't get a electrician grading only improver that is why a lot off people are not getting a ECS card from them

I presume the grading wouldn't necessarily be required. But in fairness the logical thing to do would be the NVQ or its successor to qualify, unless Industry Assessed routes or whatever are open to the applicant.

 

[ian.settle1]

I presume the grading wouldn't necessarily be required. But in fairness the logical thing to do would be the NVQ or its successor to qualify, unless Industry Assessed routes or whatever are open to the applicant.

If your not graded then how else could it be used as a license to say your an electrician?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Could be....but then nothing would surprise me,this government are constantly thinking of new ways to screw more money out of us and have total control of everything.
I can see how this would work,existing courses passed will not qualify,bring in a new qualification everyone has to pass...KERCHING!!
Licence issued for a fee...KERCHING!!!
Renewable every year with a refresher course every two years....KERCHING...KERCHING...KERCHING!!!!
More money screwed from the working bloke to keep all those labour voters ,who have never done a days work in their lives, in the manner they have grown accustomed to....

This is roughly what they do in Australia, it seems a fairer set up to me, what we pay in Licence fees we get back by not having to be in a Part P club.

Also in Aus if you are not a Grade A Electrician you cant buy fittings etc, the sheds are not allowed to sell them to Joe public.

Personally i think youve been fed a load of crap, but it would get my vote.

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

 

[Notsosmart]

we are cucified in this country for trying to make money
i should have done plastering - van - trowel - plaster - job done

Bish-bosh give me the dosh ~ Loadsamoney!!

The only thing I heard a few months ago was that JIB (ECS) cards may become a legal requirement, i.e. a licence. If that was to be done I would be quite happy about it, to be honest..

That is more or less true now, as most regulated siteds require CSCS (or ECS), to enforce it domestically would require resources and man-power the government has not the wit nor wisdom to provide.

There is no merit in them setting up another scheme as a licence, however.

True but as Ian has said the JIB need to stop Navel gazing and give more help to new trainee's coming through, and also speed the process of issuing cards.

This is roughly what they do in Australia, it seems a fairer set up to me, what we pay in Licence fees we get back by not having to be in a Part P club.

Also in Aus if you are not a Grade A Electrician you cant buy fittings etc, the sheds are not allowed to sell them to Joe public.*

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

*A great Idea; but lets face it Corgi/gas safe has been in force in the UK for years yet the sheds still sell gas fittings.

 

[Guest123]

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

I dont think anyone could meet all 66 different requirements....

 

[pennywise]

The more regulated and the more closed shop we can make the trade, the more we can charge, you only have to look at gas fitters to see the potential reward. The extra cost of training and testing would all be covered in the rate rises surely.

 

[Notsosmart]

I dont think anyone could meet all 66 different requirements....

Back to college for me if I ever decide to become an Antipodean.

 

[Guest123]

I been looking into it for a while.......not easy.

 

[stevey1983]

its all about money, having a licenses doesnt mean anything, take a look at all the bad dangerous drivers out there with licenses or even all the people who drive without one. Anyway how would this be policed? so many people out there doing part p work when they shouldnt and get away with it. Also in all my time of being a sparky i have never ever once been asked to prove what qualifications i have or if im insured to carry out the work. Most of the public have never heard of Part P and you would be surprised at how few even know what gas safe is either. If this is true which i doubt very much then i will not be getting one, i will carry on as i am and doubt anyone will be none the wiser

 

[Guest123]

It's all got to start with the sheds......if Joe Public cant get his mits on electrical gear he cant do the job. Simples.

 

[bugsy]

It's always about money, If they were to license our trade and enforce it it would be a good thing but that will never ever happen

 

[martysparky]

If B and Q sells d/lights with instructions that have no mention whatsoever about insulation effects what chance do we have of them pulling the plug on joe public buying and botching. Joe saves OUR money and make the government more money. What a cash cow...

But then again, if they did pull the plug surely those retail taxes plus the licence would be more beneficial to the Gov and us????

Shouldn't the scheme be the licence???

 

[Phil]

makes me laugh the new electrafix and plumb fix that will only sell to trade, built onto the screwfix counter? yeh thats going to stop them buying there electrical bit`s and bobs. i dont have a problem with b and q selling boards but you should have to have some sort of trade card to buy them. the electrafix idea in concept of proving you are competent was a good idea if all the rest fallowed we might have a better chance but somehow i dont think it`s ever going to happen

 

[lloyd1980]

Not true. It specifically does not apply to domestic premises.

Also I'm not sure what you mean about BS7671 "exceeding" the Electricity at Work Regulations.

It simply states that compliance with BS7671 is LIKELY to achieve compliance with the Electricity at Work Regulations.

The electricity at work regulations are a statutory document
in order to stay within the law you need to prove that you have at least met the EAWR
BS7671 is a non statutory document and is a recgnised ACOP (acceptable code of practice)

what this means is that if you follow bs7671 then your are exceeding the statutory requirments of the Electricity at work Regulations (Law)

if you wired to the 16th edition today you would not be breaking the law,
we obviously comply with 7671 as to be a part of the competant person schemes requires it (nic etc) but if you were informing LABC yourself then 16th is not illegal

if you read the EAWR there is nothing about most circuits being RCD protected
the only thing that comes close is regulation 12 - Means for cutting off the supply and for isolation
there is no mention of an RCD

people dont seem aware of this and whether we like it or not are forced into doing a new regs course and purchasing a book for the slightest change

it makes me wonder if any of the board of directors of the IEE have any fingers in electrical equipment manufacturing and stand to gain financially from these new rules - IE increased demand for expensive RBCO's sometimes over 20 quid a pop

it makes you wonder

 

[Notsosmart]

The electricity at work regulations are a statutory document
in order to stay within the law you need to prove that you have at least met the EAWR
BS7671 is a non statutory document and is a recgnised ACOP (acceptable code of practice)

what this means is that if you follow bs7671 then your are exceeding the statutory requirments of the Electricity at work Regulations (Law)

if you wired to the 16th edition today you would not be breaking the law,
we obviously comply with 7671 as to be a part of the competant person schemes requires it (nic etc) but if you were informing LABC yourself then 16th is not illegal

if you read the EAWR there is nothing about most circuits being RCD protected
the only thing that comes close is regulation 12 - Means for cutting off the supply and for isolation
there is no mention of an RCD

people dont seem aware of this and whether we like it or not are forced into doing a new regs course and purchasing a book for the slightest change

*it makes me wonder if any of the board of directors of the IEE have any fingers in electrical equipment manufacturing and stand to gain financially from these new rules - IE increased demand for expensive RBCO's sometimes over 20 quid a pop*

it makes you wonder

* Carefull Lloyd your becoming as cynical as me!

Lets face it there was nothing wrong with the 16th, it is as though there is change for change sake.

Whilst I agree with what you are saying in principle, as you have said working to the IEE regs mean that you meet the requirements of EAWA, with the litigation sharks, er i mean lawyers, out there if you are not working to the 17th could they twist it to show that you are not meeting this statute?
Ok there are plenty of installations out there that Noah helped install but that means, as competent persons, it is our duty to point the short-comings out to the customer who also has a right to refuse remeidial work, (our nannying big brother hasn't cottened on to this legislative loop-hole yet!)

 

[Spudnik]

there is no requirment at the moment for RCD's to be on EVERYTHING

I know.

It was a sweeping statement i was making.

 

[ian.settle1]

If B and Q sells d/lights with instructions that have no mention whatsoever about insulation effects what chance do we have of them pulling the plug on joe public buying and botching. Joe saves OUR money and make the government more money. What a cash cow...

But then again, if they did pull the plug surely those retail taxes plus the licence would be more beneficial to the Gov and us????

Shouldn't the scheme be the licence???

Not everyone does house bashing what about electricians who are maintenance electricians in industry or electricians who work for companies who only do commercial or industrial installations??????

 

[sparky1502]

i know that summit skills are charging things for the college starters they are doing away with the c&g 2330 and bringing in a diploma level 3 which includes a level 3 nvq and am2 and 3 years at college which will screw up these training centres as they cant offere the nvq...but according to sorces electrical installation is no longer on the goverments approved course scheme as a vital course and thus the funding is minial....o the joys of a democaracy

 

[martysparky]

Not everyone does house bashing what about electricians who are maintenance electricians in industry or electricians who work for companies who only do commercial or industrial installations??????

Just talking from my point of view. To be honest I have no idea how it would effect them???

 

[Jason Smith]

So if we get pulled up for something on an annual, will we get our license endorsed-12 points and were out ?

 

[mogga]

new member excuse the ramblings Whats the point of "Part P NicEic Napit " ect ect ect when mr Joe bloggs can wander into BnQ Screwfix ect ect n buy over the counter all sorts of stuff that if not wired,tested,correctly could kill try buying certain Gas products and you will be asked for your "Gas Safe" card why o why dont we have the same sort of scheme allowing only approved jib sjib electricians to buy certain products ?

 

[martysparky]

new member excuse the ramblings Whats the point of "Part P NicEic Napit " ect ect ect when mr Joe bloggs can wander into BnQ Screwfix ect ect n buy over the counter all sorts of stuff that if not wired,tested,correctly could kill try buying certain Gas products and you will be asked for your "Gas Safe" card why o why dont we have the same sort of scheme allowing only approved jib sjib electricians to buy certain products ?

why don't you start a new thread


Who wants joe public to to electricians work?

 

[UNG]

new member excuse the ramblings Whats the point of "Part P NicEic Napit " ect ect ect when mr Joe bloggs can wander into BnQ Screwfix ect ect n buy over the counter all sorts of stuff that if not wired,tested,correctly could kill try buying certain Gas products and you will be asked for your "Gas Safe" card why o why dont we have the same sort of scheme allowing only approved jib sjib electricians to buy certain products ?

There is nothing to stop you buying gas equipment it is just illegal to connect it to the gas supply

IMHO part p was never intended to make domestic electrics safer it was a scheme to help HMRC make domestic work traceable and therefore taxable

 

[martysparky]

Just do big jobs and only use LABC being Mr joe bloggs.

 

[Lec]

Guys guys guys, isn't there a lot of smoke and mirrors.

To clarify the NVQ situation - NVQs are being replaced with QCFs, which work on a points system and no they don't make prizes.
There will be a QCF that will be an equiv of the NVQ (sort of), but the training will be of a lower standard.
Did you also know that the AM2 is changing. They don't believe an electrician needs to be able to terminate MI, work steel conduit or deal with motors. They say they are specialist skills!

Yes we do need a licence scheme and YES it CAN happen, it realy can and some people in the "trade bodies" are very very worried. They are supposed to be working for the electrical trade, but they may actualy be worried more about their gravey train and profits.

I'll tel more if you want to know.