polarity argument at work

[Olliew]

What do use in emergency lighting brown permanent live black switch live or black permanent live brown switch live obviously grey neutral major arguments at work please help to settle

 

[derektaylor]

Hi there , Derek here been in the game for over 20 years now and I have this argument at work a lot with the young kids coming through. And it is definately black as switch live brown as permanent live. I'm so glad someone as posted a question on this because it really annoys me when cowboys try and say black is permanent , hope this helps!!! Derek

 

[infinity]

I tend to use black as switch also but there is nothing to say you cannot use either as long as its sleeved up and constant throughout the install!

 

[1shortcircuit]

Yep, brown perm black switch :thumbsup

This thread needs a POLL

 

[telectrix]

never had this argument when we had sensible colours. :6:

 

[Des 56]

There was no talk about these matters until they got rid of the proper colours :13:

Wow Tel,were you reading my mind ?

 

[telectrix]

snap....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What are the terminal markings?
If you have L1 and L2, then the colour should be obvious.

 

[Swicade]

Red perminent live, yellow (sleeved red) switch live, blue Neutral....



OR for the eurocrats Brown perminent live, black (sleeved brown) switch live, grey (sleeved blue) neutral...

 

[Olliew]

Totally agree guys so many big companies doing the other way makes things so complicated . It should be made clear in the regs god they update them enough lol

 

[derektaylor]

Des 56 I think that comment is absolute nonsense. Need to get with the times and learn that everything moves on. But these thickos out there need to understand brown is permanent !!!!!!

 

[Knobhead]

Colours

 

[Crosswire]

Black switch live!

 

[Knobhead]

Des 56 I think that comment is absolute nonsense. Need to get with the times and learn that everything moves on. But these thickos out there need to understand brown is permanent !!!!!!

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] post and you insult a respected member.

I can see you going down well here.

View attachment 14739

 

[telectrix]

Des 56 I think that comment is absolute nonsense. Need to get with the times and learn that everything moves on. But these thickos out there need to understand brown is permanent !!!!!!

i always understood that poo was brown, a bit like your post.

 

[Des 56]

Des 56 I think that comment is absolute nonsense. Need to get with the times and learn that everything moves on. But these thickos out there need to understand brown is permanent !!!!!!

Here is a but more nonsense Dearest Derrick
I have got with the times,although white still holds some affection

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Might of missed something here, but if this is a single phase install then black does not exist!, wether its switched or not it's a line conductor and if sleeved brown then it's colour is brown

 

[telectrix]

Might of missed something here, but if this is a single phase install then black does not exist!, wether its switched or not it's a line conductor and if sleeved brown then it's colour is brown

it does if you're using 3 core/E.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

An argument we could have for a long time, black is a three phase line conductor, when u sleeve it brown it's brown, if the cores were insulated crimson and u sleeved them brown then they are now brown end of, my point is it doesn't matter what colour they were it matters they are the right colour now

 

[Darkwood]

I cant believe that this is such a debate point; as Lland' has pointed out if black is used in single phase then it is required to be sleeved (Brown in this case), this then gives you a personel choice of which to use as live and which as switch, there are no rules or regs telling you but common sense makes it easier to use natural brown as permanent live and sleeved brown as sw/live as but again il re-iterate it your own preference as they will be both brown after you have terminated and sleeved where necessary.
Next question! which is the front side and which is the backside of the sun?

 

[Guest123]

Des 56 I think that comment is absolute nonsense. Need to get with the times and learn that everything moves on. But these thickos out there need to understand brown is permanent !!!!!!

You need to address your attitude sir or you wont last long here!!!!!

Using the black conductor as a permanent live conductor does not make anyone a thicko or a cowboy!

You best address all the manufacturers of plug-in ceiling roses with your concerns as ALL of them use the black conductor within the flex of a 4 pole rose as the permanent live conductor.

 

[Olliew]

The point is dark wood when your work on major projects when many electricians are working it becomes a point. When switching is ran through contacts bringing on many circuits and lights.

 

[derektaylor]

Lenny don't tell me about my attitude please because nothing is out of line. And tbh Íve been sparkying for over 20 yrs now and I love my job and have a great passion for it and it really gets to me when people act thick and class black as permanent. Rant over !

 

[Swicade]

Even this thicko carrot cruncher can work out the OP was asking people's opinion's to find out the system a majority use...as with many things there's no rules or regulations but some sort of continuity would be a good thing.

 

[Billythekid]

The point is dark wood when your work on major projects when many electricians are working it becomes a point. When switching is ran through contacts bringing on many circuits and lights.

If working on major projects, it would be prudent to check with your Charge Hand/Foreman/Site Manager, and likewise they should check with you. Sadly these kind of 'mishaps' are happening more and more as companies are making "aggressive commercial decisions" (please don't get me started). Ultimately the materials cost the same, I'll let you guess where the 'fat gets cut'. I have to agree with a few on here and say there is no set way of wiring, let alone which colours are utilised.

 

[Jonny66]

To me and it may sound silly, but a bit of brown sleaving on a conductor means switched live..so brown permanent etc ect.....

 

[Olliew]

Cheers guys for all inputs had a lot of good points Lenny know your point with gregs think that is where the argument starts for us too. No clear cut answer.

 

[ashrow]

Brown perm L for me and then black (sleeved brown ) would be the switched live

Still finding other sparks sleeving the black with blue to make it a neutral then sleeving grey with Green and Yellow in swa and for some reason drives me mad

 

[Darkwood]

The point is dark wood when your work on major projects when many electricians are working it becomes a point. When switching is ran through contacts bringing on many circuits and lights.

I see where your coming from but this isnt about which is which but a breakdown in comunication, your chargehand, foreman or boss depending who sits the highest when making onsite decisions should make it clear to all from the start, if this is a re-occuring argument then someone isn't doing there job properly by seeing the issue and holding a site meeting or even doing a one to one chat with all on site.

 

[Guest123]

Lenny don't tell me about my attitude please because nothing is out of line.

Yes there is.................your attitude!!!

We try and keep this place as friendly and welcoming as possible for everyone to use, with a first post calling people cowboys & thickos because they do something in a way that you dont agree with is ignorance personified.

Is it dangerous..........no, is it against regulations............no, is it simply a matter of personal choice...........YES!!!

 

[needasparks]

Just to throw something else into the mix we use alot of prewired fittings on commercial install and they all come with brown switched and black perm on all the emergency fittings which the plugs are tamper sealed, this i guess matches the switched only fittings which as you know are brown switched. I know many manufacturers use this system so i stay with it to keep it the same throughout the job.
Only on domestic where i choose the colours do i use black as switched but this stems from the old colours.
Its a bit like a two way switch with what colour to common ? Does it matter as long as its marked.

 

[Octopus]

Lenny don't tell me about my attitude please because nothing is out of line. And tbh Íve been sparkying for over 20 yrs now and I love my job and have a great passion for it and it really gets to me when people act thick and class black as permanent. Rant over !

You've got a cheek. A new member with 3 posts is picking a fight with a moderator - keep this up and you'll be banned!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

How many posts do you have to have made before picking a fight with a moderator is allowed?

 

[Darkwood]

Ive got a tenner on Lenny in the 3rd round

 

[tazz]

I go a tenner with you.....still prefer connecting grey to brown, black to grey and blueee to bits.....!

 

[Knobhead]

Can't see it getting to the third round.

 

[1shortcircuit]

I still think there should be a POLL.

Ban the abusive member Yes or Ban the abusive member No

 

[Guest123]

I still think there should be a POLL.

Ban the abusive member Yes or Ban the abusive member No

I'll give ye a poll then.atriot:

 

[Guest123]

***poll added***

 

[tazz]

Would suggest the electric chair myself....but I`m worried who might of wired it, can be dangerous things those chairs if you mix your browns with your blacks...

 

[Adam W]

Well I use brown for switched live and black for auxiliary live (permanent feed to emergency fittings) like it's intended for.
If most of the lights aren't emergency fittings the colours in the flex will be brown, blue and green & yellow, so you use brown for the switched live just the same as you do throughout the rest of the installation.
In the emergency fittings the colours might be brown, black, blue, and green & yellow - the extra colour being black to be used for the extra terminal you've now got (auxiliary live).

There was me thinking it was obvious...

 

[Darkwood]

At Derektaylor .. it seems from your post #2 that you have been arguing with the new bloods over the years and got to a point where you wont accept what you are telling them isn't entirely true,if you look after these apprentices and young sparks then you can by all rights tell them thats the method you prefer and they are to use it but you can't turn around and tell them there method isnt right as both are, you have been given various manufactured products that adopt black as permanent live and brown switch and also from other posts you should be aware by now that both ways are acceptable and only preference is the key, the only time this should be an issue is when multiple sparkies operate on job or site and a common method needs to be agreed to avoid wasted time.
The decent thing to do here is to tell the young lads tomorrow you stand corrected and admit their methods are not wrong and take it on the chin, its a bit concerning that you get these lads out of college then overrule what they have been taught.

The O/P asked the question because their exists a confliction within his works and by now he will realise both methods are correct and no-one was wrong and yes brown as permanent live might be the general chosen method but thats not my point here.

 

[Darkwood]

Can't cast my poll choice as i adopt both dependant on job (i.e. if using products with already black assigned as live)

 

[Guest123]

Can't cast my poll choice as i adopt both dependant on job (i.e. if using products with already black assigned as live)

Added option, just for you.:sifone:

 

[Sintra]

Well I have always used brown for switched live and black for perm live and won't be changing now.

 

[derektaylor]

If you all want to have a sly dig at me Derek then go ahead. But I'm the main man so u can all bore off. And I'll tell my apprentices what I want

 

[1shortcircuit]

I still think there should be a POLL.

Ban the abusive member Yes or Ban the abusive member No

I'll give ye a poll then.atriot:

Wrong POLL, you didn't read my entire post did you Lenny

*** I hope you have your smiley head on ***

 

[needasparks]

Thats what i thought....

 

[Adam W]

Derek would you care to back up your argument as to WHY you use black for switched live?
Bear in mind "because I've been doing it that way for 20 years" isn't much of an argument.

 

[johnboy6083]

For me, I almost always use click roses to wire lighting (industrial). As such I normally wire in singles, so it's brown for everything! But in flex, it's black for perm as per the the click system.
In domestic 2 way, I use grey for the common. Strappers don't matter which way round.
in normal 1ph I sleeve black as CPC and grey as neutral.
If I'm following somebody else's 1st or 2nd fix, I always check 1st.
Horses for courses I say.
Its like how to wire 2 way and intermediate lighting. There are lots of different ways and I use whichever method I feel like on the day.