B
Bensen
Hey what kilowatt showers can be feed off 6mm cable and which need 10mm? I guess the distance from the fuse board also needs taking in to account?
Discuss Size of shower cable in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Meh, it's only a few wires man. What can possibly go wrong?
Apart from a horrible, painful, fiery death.
Of course mate. How foolish of meunless of course you fit a steel DB.
Hey what kilowatt showers can be feed off 6mm cable and which need 10mm? I guess the distance from the fuse board also needs taking in to account?
Very broadly speaking up to 8.5kw on a 6mm
8.5kw to 10kw will need a 10mm
You need to consider some very important variables including,
The installation method ie is the cable run enclosed in some way or clipped direct.
Is the cable running within some form of insulation ect.
To explain,
The cable under load generates temperatures above ambient, and its ability to dissipate those temperatures will be greatly affected by the way its installed.
You also have to consider the length of run as this can affect the difference between the supply voltage at source and the voltage at the load/shower terminals.
This is known as volt drop and directly relates to the internal resistance of the cable per metre, in relation to its cross sectional area.
The characteristics of the protective device are also important as you need to ensure that the device disconnects the supply before the user of the shower receives an electric shock, should a fault condition develop.
The installations integrity need to be verified to ensure insulation,polarity, along with a low resistance earth return path are able to satisfy these requirements.
A certificate recording these results is produced to provide a paper trail for future reference.
Building regulations under part P also come into play when working in bathrooms as they are known as a special location, and these are divided into various zones for compliance.
If all this makes sense to you and you have the appropriate test equipment and knowledge to use it, then your good to go.
If not, consult a qualified electrician.:icon12:
Thanks would many sparkys be able to take care of the plumbing too. Its an old 25year plus shower that needs swapping.
Yes please, I also like Mustard.Hey what kilowatt showers can be feed off 6mm cable and which need 10mm? I guess the distance from the fuse board also needs taking in to account?
Stuff and nonsence :biggrin:Very broadly speaking up to 8.5kw on a 6mm
8.5kw to 10kw will need a 10mm
You need to consider some very important variables including,
The installation method ie is the cable run enclosed in some way or clipped direct.
Is the cable running within some form of insulation ect.
To explain,
The cable under load generates temperatures above ambient, and its ability to dissipate those temperatures will be greatly affected by the way its installed.
You also have to consider the length of run as this can affect the difference between the supply voltage at source and the voltage at the load/shower terminals.
This is known as volt drop and directly relates to the internal resistance of the cable per metre, in relation to its cross sectional area.
The characteristics of the protective device are also important as you need to ensure that the device disconnects the supply before the user of the shower receives an electric shock, should a fault condition develop.
The installations integrity need to be verified to ensure insulation,polarity, along with a low resistance earth return path are able to satisfy these requirements.
A certificate recording these results is produced to provide a paper trail for future reference.
Building regulations under part P also come into play when working in bathrooms as they are known as a special location, and these are divided into various zones for compliance.
If all this makes sense to you and you have the appropriate test equipment and knowledge to use it, then your good to go.
If not, consult a qualified electrician.:icon12:
coming from someone who likes creamflow,:ack2:, that's not a very good advert for colmans.Yes please, I also like Mustard.
Afternoon Terence :biggrin:coming from someone who likes creamflow,:ack2:, that's not a very good advert for colmans.
Hi Bensen, distance plays a big part along with other factors including overcurrent protection and installation methods. I see from your profile that you are a plumber so IMO you should leave electrical cable calcs to the sparks.
I'm sayin' nowt!! :uhoh2::38:
coming from someone who likes creamflow,:ack2:, that's not a very good advert for colmans.
well, that's a first!
can't. i'm having my coffin relined. it's been letting in sunlight.Who rattled your cage??
Go back to sleep - it's not bedtime yet.
believe. ner ner
Very broadly speaking up to 8.5kw on a 6mm
8.5kw to 10kw will need a 10mm
You have just given this plumber a green light IMO lol
Thanks would many sparkys be able to take care of the plumbing too. Its an old 25year plus shower that needs swapping.
And a green light on advice that is wrong!
Why do people persist in their quest to not only help people do things they shouldn't be doing, but to give them duff advice as well?!
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'blind leading the blind' in this particular case. But at least get it right before you advise people to do what they shouldn't be doing. Better still though, just don't advise at all unless that advice is plainly and simply; "get a qualified electrician in".
And a green light on advice that is wrong!
Why do people persist in their quest to not only help people do things they shouldn't be doing, but to give them duff advice as well?!
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'blind leading the blind' in this particular case. But at least get it right before you advise people to do what they shouldn't be doing. Better still though, just don't advise at all unless that advice is plainly and simply; "get a qualified electrician in".
Then it aint a like for like saw, particularly given the requirement for RCD protection per manufacturers instructions. Can a plumber spell RCD?Thanks would many sparkys be able to take care of the plumbing too. Its an old 25year plus shower that needs swapping.
Of course all the above is very true.
So difficult to judge the integrity, knowledge, experience, or competence of anybody on this forum.
And I do mean anybody.
Some are no doubt very nice, genuine people, with a wealth of experience under there belt.
Others are arrogant self obsessed masters of there universe who probably make a living sucking on the experience and hard work of the genuine electrician.
Of all the electrical consultants, technicians, engineers, and qualified electricians I have known and respect. Not one of them is or has been a member of this forum. Or feel any need to be so.
I come on here when a little bored and enjoy the banter.
I have spent a lovely evening with friends one of which is a telecoms engineer, the other a solicitor, and another has his own plumbing business.
Our wife's likewise enjoyed the evening, been talking about an up coming cruise that we are all looking forward to.
For me its time for bed, and for those who relate to my comments, and come here for similar reasons (and they know who they are)
I would say take any sarcasm, arrogance, or statements relating to the I no so much more than anyone else brigade with a pinch of salt.
There not an integral part of your life or mine in the real world.
And lets face it, the real world is full of, how shall we say, Plonkers. lol.
Have a really good night fellas, God bless xx
We spend years a college(or at least most of us do) learning about cable cals the science behnid electrics and theory for a good reason. There is more than just what size cable due to Kw rating of the shower. What about earthing arrangements, Zs of the circuit, compliance with section 701 of the BGB.
So before you get on your high horse preaching about us being arrogant, make sure you give correct advice with everything in mind as you say a little knowledge can be dangerous.
Yes I did too, and agree.
That's all in my reply to the original poster, phrased somewhat differently but there.
My comments are not for you regarding arrogance. Your one of the nice guys and if you knew and worked with me we would be shaking hands and you would find me very different to what you perceive on a forum.
That's the shame of it.
Knowledge, experience,is my living,I do not give it away for free.
But so many do and why? Then at some point they are moaning about not having enough work!
To try and prove how good they are Clive. I have nothing to prove to myself or anybody else.
I'm guessing the comments were for me regarding arrogance, and I'm guessing that's because you perceive me to be 'not one of the nice guys'.
Well guess what, I couldn't give hoot.
I certainly don't come from the 'I know better than anyone else' camp, far from it in fact, but your advice about 6mm for up to 8.5kW and 10mm for the rest, although a rough guide, is still wrong. It would be like me saying that a rough guide for sub mains is to use 16mm cable!? Well hang on a moment... What about a 200A sub main?!
You start giving people 'rough' guides and they will use them. It is in our nature to take a mile when given an inch.
There are situations where 16mm cable may well be needed for an 8.5kW shower and there are other situations when 6mm may well be just fine for a 10.5kW shower. You explain well that there are other issues that need taking into account but this guy is a plumber, he isn't going to know is he. For all you know he may be looking at your post and all he sees is "6mm is fine for 8.5kW". That is where the danger lies and was the only point I was making.
If you're going to be giving out advice to unqualified people it should be "get a qualified electrician", no more no less. The moment you start making them think that it is a job they can do themselves they are going to cease this opportunity aren't they! If they're the sort that know their limits they wouldn't be on here in the first place asking us how to do something they shouldn't be doing. What is worse however is not only providing advice that allows them to scoot off and start tampering with the unknown, but providing advice that hints at options that may well be unsuitable. In this case, you've nothing short of a recipe for disaster.
I know that a lot of people on here have the undying urge to 'help' others, all at the same time showing off what knowledge they may (or as is often the case 'don't) have and racking up their post count at the same time. All I'm saying is maybe sometimes, it's best to quell that urge.
If by saying this I come across as a d¡ckhead then so be it. I'd far rather be a d¡ckhead that doles out the right advice than a d¡ckhead that doles out wrong and potentially dangerous advice.
As my tutor says "electrical fire, 3 dead and you in jail for manslaughter" that's when someone doesn't test properly :lol:Meh, it's only a few wires man. What can possibly go wrong?
Apart from a horrible, painful, fiery death.
Don't attempt to defend the fact a 8.5kw shower cannot be used on a 6mm2 cable, believe me you will lose the argument, we consider ohms law and several tables in BS 7671 as well as installation factors/ methods in BS7671 when calculating cable sizes, ahem, say no more, now crawl back into your fox hole, incommingConsidering your avatar you will probably appreciate the scene in the film Patton when the Russian general toasts him.
So with that in mind from one Dick Head to another Dick Head, I will drink to that.
With regards to giving poor advice on the cable sizing front.
I feel I have made it quite clear, in my original reply to the OP, that there are factors that need to be taken into consideration, not least length of run and installation method.
Its all there if you take the time to read it !!
And if my comments are without substance or merit I suggest you search the internet yourself, because like the OP its all there and far from a big hush hush secret these days.
Have a look for yourself,
Removed
Argue with the shower manufactures by all means.
Do I see 8.5kw 6mm mentioned there ??
At least others can judge for themselves, but that's not to say your not entitled to your opinion.
With reference to the majority of your comments I will say this.
I agree with you.
But the one regarding blind leading blind, bit harsh is that.
By all means don't agree.
But don't assume a guy doesn't know his stuff purely because his opinion differs with yours.
Very broadly speaking up to 8.5kw on a 6mm
8.5kw to 10kw will need a 10mm
You need to consider some very important variables including,
The installation method ie is the cable run enclosed in some way or clipped direct.
Is the cable running within some form of insulation ect.
To explain,
The cable under load generates temperatures above ambient, and its ability to dissipate those temperatures will be greatly affected by the way its installed.
You also have to consider the length of run as this can affect the difference between the supply voltage at source and the voltage at the load/shower terminals.
This is known as volt drop and directly relates to the internal resistance of the cable per metre, in relation to its cross sectional area.
The characteristics of the protective device are also important as you need to ensure that the device disconnects the supply before the user of the shower receives an electric shock, should a fault condition develop.
The installations integrity need to be verified to ensure insulation,polarity, along with a low resistance earth return path are able to satisfy these requirements.
A certificate recording these results is produced to provide a paper trail for future reference.
Building regulations under part P also come into play when working in bathrooms as they are known as a special location, and these are divided into various zones for compliance.
If all this makes sense to you and you have the appropriate test equipment and knowledge to use it, then your good to go.
If not, consult a qualified electrician.:icon12:
Considering your avatar you will probably appreciate the scene in the film Patton when the Russian general toasts him.
So with that in mind from one Dick Head to another Dick Head, I will drink to that.
With regards to giving poor advice on the cable sizing front.
I feel I have made it quite clear, in my original reply to the OP, that there are factors that need to be taken into consideration, not least length of run and installation method.
Its all there if you take the time to read it !!
And if my comments are without substance or merit I suggest you search the internet yourself, because like the OP its all there and far from a big hush hush secret these days.
Have a look for yourself,
Removed
At least others can judge for themselves, but that's not to say your not entitled to your opinion.
With reference to the majority of your comments I will say this.
I agree with you.
But the one regarding blind leading blind, bit harsh is that.
By all means don't agree.
But don't assume a guy doesn't know his stuff purely because his opinion differs with yours.
Baldsparkies; I think the mistake you've made in post 10, is that you've virtually given the go ahead, then gone on to qualify your statement.
Should have gone the other way round.
The geezer will just see what he wants in your initial statement and ignore the rest!
this is about the only thing the plumber would of seen IMO.
Reply to Size of shower cable in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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