Time to voice OUR opinion

[davesparks]

Cable entry, metal clad is more restrictive. Have generally always used insulated on domestic and find this new requirement irritating when there is nothing wrong with what we have.

Both plastic and metal have four sides and a back which you can make cable entries wherever you need them. All you need is a drill and holesaw plus nibblers/tin snips occasionally.

Personally I find plastic boards to be flimsy and rarely as spacious inside as metal.

 

[davesparks]

According to Tony Cable at Sandown, all entry and exit points will need to be fire retardant!

A tube of pyromate sealant should fix that.

 

[Octopus]

A tube of pyromate sealant should fix that.

What a great suggestion. Have a house point!

 

[davesparks]

What a great suggestion. Have a house point!

It seemed obvious to me, but unless we are going to use fire resistant cable then I can't see the point!

 

[baldsparkies]

Are there any actual respected, genuine, reliable, non bull**** statistics to support any claims that plastic clad consumer units are the primary source of domestic house fires ??????

 

[Anthony S]

I'm going to start using micc when the times come :laugh:

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Are there any actual respected, genuine, reliable, non bull**** statistics to support any claims that plastic clad consumer units are the primary source of domestic house fires ??????

Exactly.

 

[Octopus]

It seemed obvious to me, but unless we are going to use fire resistant cable then I can't see the point!

But where do you stop. Metal clad sofa? Metal "carpet" - its all pretty stupid if you ask me!

 

[davesparks]

But where do you stop. Metal clad sofa? Metal "carpet" - its all pretty stupid if you ask me!

You start and stop at improving manufacturing standards so that we get decent terminals to terminate into and only those who are actually competent being allowed to install .

Fire proof boxes, fire sealing, smoke alarms or whatever are just attempts to treat the symptoms and not curing the disease!

 

[TJ Anderson]

Where do we stand installing a new circuit to an existing insulated CU? The new circuit wont be in a metal clad consumer unit and be fire retardant and therefore won't comply. Charlatans are going to jump all over this insisting on replacing. Also why don't they insist on metal clad accessories too if it is such a real issue?

 

[Anthony S]

Where do we stand installing a new circuit to an existing insulated CU? The new circuit wont be in a metal clad consumer unit and be fire retardant and therefore won't comply. Charlatans are going to jump all over this insisting on replacing. Also why don't they insist on metal clad accessories too if it is such a real issue?

Comment on existing installation is all you can do, if the consumer unit don't comply with current reg blah blah don't mean the installation is unsafe.

 

[spark 68]

To be honest most of Amd 3 is a load of BS, Bull Shine that is :willy_nilly:

The powers that be had nothing else better to do and needed the money for next years "fact finding" mission.... to the Bahamas... all in the name of safety of course

This stupid one, as well as the reducing Zs values (again) with the utterly pointless Cmin factor to our already mythical 230/400 V supply, they already reduced the Zs values once in the past with the Ballcocks change from 240/415 :mad2:

Throw in a couple of regs from other standards, print some new books/GNs, and voila, next years Jollies and PiXs up is sorted.

I don't think I have ever been as miffed before with a new amd, how about they cleaned up and clarified the existing ones for a change ? some plain English would be a start ! :mad2:

 

[baldsparkies]

Managed to find this which on the face of things looks pretty grim.

http://www.tvhsg.org/uploads/Consumer_unit_fires.pdf

Looks like faulty or loose connections are the main culprit and that can happen any where in the installation switches sockets isolators pendants you name it.
The problem I see is if these faults are widespread then right now there are hundreds of thousands of consumer units up and down the country that are potential time bombs.
Changing the regs at this stage is not going to sort out existing problems.
From what I can see there's been a massive cock up by British Standards and the board manufacturers.

 

[R G]

I saw this some time ago , as a consumer unit I had come across had a burnt out neutral bar on the same board as in the photos , It seems to me as I already said , the quality of the internals has become very poor , wouldn't surprise me the breakers as shown , should have been replaced on the Electrium recall , Metal enclosures won't stop this happening , the quality of the internals needs sorting..

 

[Engineer54]

Are there any actual respected, genuine, reliable, non bull**** statistics to support any claims that plastic clad consumer units are the primary source of domestic house fires ??????

I suspect in a single word .....NO!!

 

[Engineer54]

The IET have been lead by the nose up the proverbial garden path by the LFB, and are too frightened to stand up to them. If you look at any of the photo's in the link above, none has basically anything to do with the plastic enclosure, (they have all seemed to have melted rather than catch fire) it's obviously down to the internal components and **** poor workmanship. That workmanship will only get worse by introducing metal only CU's in domestic installations. I can see knockouts and made entries being left open, sharp edges that are going to strip insulation pulling cables through them and left, ...all sorts!!

Most of the DB's (and/or CU's) used on my projects are metal, only DB's exposed to the elements or located in chemical atmospheres/environments that are not suitable for metal boards are of a plastic nature. I prefer metal DB's myself but in a domestic, i have my reservations both from an aesthetic view and from the standard of workmanship afforded by these so called DI's!!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Poor workmanship appears to being highlighted as a major problem on this thread.
I wonder how long it will be that someone gets a fatal shock from touching a live metal CU due to the above?

I think that they (IET et al.) haven't really thought this through properly, but what do I know?!

 

[Engineer54]

It seemed obvious to me, but unless we are going to use fire resistant cable then I can't see the point!

Well that'll be the next step in defending these new ill thought out amendments, the mandatory use of LSF cables!!! Just wait and see if i'm not right...lol!!

 

[andyelectric]

Managed to find this which on the face of things looks pretty grim.

http://www.tvhsg.org/uploads/Consumer_unit_fires.pdf

Looks like faulty or loose connections are the main culprit and that can happen any where in the installation switches sockets isolators pendants you name it.
The problem I see is if these faults are widespread then right now there are hundreds of thousands of consumer units up and down the country that are potential time bombs.
Changing the regs at this stage is not going to sort out existing problems.
From what I can see there's been a massive cock up by British Standards and the board manufacturers.

From the link it looks like faulty mcbs are a large problem. But instead of ensuring this is sorted they are attempting to cover the problem in metal. Ridiculous.

 

[Engineer54]

I think most of the photo's in that link are based around the recall of those faulty MCB'S of a few years ago... That and the obvious bad workmanship associated with the highlighted CU's....

Nothing i could see in that link in relation to Plastic CU's actually catching fire!!


On the continent, you'd be hard pressed to find metal DB's/CU's outside of the industrial sectors (and even then it'll be only the bigger main DB's and switchboards), it's ALL plastic over there even 90% of their containment is plastic. They don't seem to have a problem with plastic based DB/CU enclosures catching fire, ....but then again neither does the UK, apart from one particular high ranking guy from the LFB who has it seems, convinced the powers that be, we do have a problem!!