Way to Save Energy Bill By Power Down STand-by Transformers

[Besoeker]

The joys of being a bad grumpy git. Enter manager “who’s on the job” "TNT" exit manager.

My shift fitter was also called Tony. We didn’t get the nickname TNT for nothing!

More bang for your buck??

 

[Engineer54]

Sent

Now I’ve seen the system it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either. But like many things, if you don’t know the history, you don’t know how the system evolved.

You once asked me about the systems I worked on saying they were badly designed, they weren’t designed they evolved over many years. Bits added, bits chopped out, it was never ending change. While ever it worked we had to make do with it.

That last drawing of mine, the generators must have moved house more times than me. Originally they were on a plant that was demolished many years ago.

Can't remember remarking that your system was badly designed in the past, this is the first time i've seen it. And yes, systems that evolve over time where factory needs get chopped, changed and extended etc, etc do tend to end up not making much sense design wise.

It happened at the company i did my training with, and that had it's own power station. During my time there, virtually the whole system (Well 3 of the main 5 factory MV distribution systems) were completely upgraded and reconfigured including remote and automated switching facilities from main control room. The work was undertaken over 3 years of annual shut down programmes. the main infrusture work being conducted by contractors between the shutdowns....Then 3 weeks of 24 hours a day of pure pandamonium!! lol!!

Most of the costs associated to those changes and upgrades were offset by company tax allowances and incentives....

 

[Knobhead]

Tell me about it.

Rebuild a complete substation in a fortnight. I only went to install a new transformer. I damn near lived at work.

 

[chlee-penang]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks for all your interest in this topic. I encounter problem of even uploading small portion of diagram and symbols.

Here is the description, hope it helps.

Red Node : VCB in Close position;
Black Cross : VCB in Open position;
Cross in Circle : Bus Tie;
Green Switch Symbol ; Earth Switch

The Single Line Diagram is showing currently switching status.

 

[Engineer54]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks for all your interest in this topic. I encounter problem of even uploading small portion of diagram and symbols.

Here is the description, hope it helps.

Red Node : VCB in Close position;
Black Cross : VCB in Open position;
Cross in Circle : Bus Tie;
Green Switch Symbol ; Earth Switch

The Single Line Diagram is showing currently switching status.

Only had time for a quick overview at the moment, but i find the VCB and COUPLER Open/Closed positions on the 11KV and 6.6 KV switch boards a little confusing. I take it that P1-P2 and P5-P6 are out of service at this time??

What industry is this distribution system supplying power to?? By the looks of things you have 4 incoming 11KV utility supplies coming in to the site, are these incomers supplied from the same utility substation or are they derived from two different utility substations??

I'll have another look at your single line drawing later on....

 

[chlee-penang]

Only had time for a quick overview at the moment, but i find the VCB and COUPLER Open/Closed positions on the 11KV and 6.6 KV switch boards a little confusing. I take it that P1-P2 and P5-P6 are out of service at this time??

What industry is this distribution system supplying power to?? By the looks of things you have 4 incoming 11KV utility supplies coming in to the site, are these incomers supplied from the same utility substation or are they derived from two different utility substations??

I'll have another look at your single line drawing later on....

P1-P2, P5-P6 are outgoing feeder to load, the VCB are always in "ON" position.

Actually there are 2 location sites, site "A" and site "B" about 3KM away form each other. Each site Sub-station is supplied from 2 incoming feeders tapping off from MV Ring Main of Utility company.

The stand-by generators are located in site "A", its back power is feeding to both "site "A" and site "B".

Due to company confidential policy, pardon me not disclosing its details here, one thing I can assure you is, it is a legal facility.

 

[Knobhead]

That explains a great deal, VCB 4 is the open point in the utility local ring.

 

[Engineer54]

P1-P2, P5-P6 are outgoing feeder to load, the VCB are always in "ON" position.

Actually there are 2 location sites, site "A" and site "B" about 3KM away form each other. Each site Sub-station is supplied from 2 incoming feeders tapping off from MV Ring Main of Utility company.

The stand-by generators are located in site "A", its back power is feeding to both "site "A" and site "B".

Due to company confidential policy, pardon me not disclosing its details here, one thing I can assure you is, it is a legal facility.

I was referring to the supply breakers, .... eg, Site 'A' Main Utility Incomer VCB (8) Open, Bus Coupler (7) Open on Main switchboard and Bus Coupler (5) Open on 6.6KV switchboard, means no power to P1-P2 and P5-P6. Also TX 4 doesn't seem to be being utilised.... Yet you show VCB 12 and VCB 6 Closed for TX 2??

As i say, i'm just a little confused with some of the main VCB Open / Closed positions through out the single line drawing....

 

[Knobhead]

To make any sense of the system another drawing is needed showing the condition during normal operation. The last drawing can’t be right.

 

[chlee-penang]

My sincere apology, it is my oversight that the red dot was accidentally moved away from VCB #8.

Normal operation conditions:

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #6 & #8; #2 & #12;#4 & #6, feeding generator power will require changing over between #4 - #6, or #8 - #10.

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #5 & #8; #1 & #11;feeding generator power will require changing over between #3 - #5, or #8 - #10.

 

[Knobhead]

I'll redraw it tonight so that everyone can see the full drawing.

I don’t think the earth switches for the outgoing feeders from the generators are in the right place ether. As it’s shown there’s four earthing points for the busbars.
Once it’s done I’ll send a copy for you to check before posting it.

 

[Knobhead]

From what I can make of it.

 

[chlee-penang]

From what I can make of it.

Thanks Tony for taking the trouble to draw a clearer diagram, you are absolutely right, it is exactly as per actual installation.

The bottom portion representing a total black out from utility whereby generators are supplying to all the loads. During scheduled load test with only one generator, or managing peak hours tariff, the generator power is fed to one section of Bus Bar only, i,e, operating both utility and generator supply concurrently without paralleling the two sources.

 

[Engineer54]

Thanks Tony for taking the trouble to draw a clearer diagram, you are absolutely right, it is exactly as per actual installation.

The bottom portion representing a total black out from utility whereby generators are supplying to all the loads. During scheduled load test with only one generator, or managing peak hours tariff, the generator power is fed to one section of Bus Bar only, i,e, operating both utility and generator supply concurrently without paralleling the two sources.

How about you now showing us (using Tony's drawing) the main VCB Open /Closed positions when operating the system with both utility and generator supply concurrently. Because from how i remember your original drawing you are only using one utility incomer on site 'A' and you had some bus couplers closed on LV switchboards??

 

[chlee-penang]

How about you now showing us (using Tony's drawing) the main VCB Open /Closed positions when operating the system with both utility and generator supply concurrently. Because from how i remember your original drawing you are only using one utility incomer on site 'A' and you had some bus couplers closed on LV switchboards??

Hello brother, please refer thread #60, I paste the content here for your convenience.

"My sincere apology, it is my oversight that the red dot was accidentally moved away from VCB #8.

Normal operation conditions:

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #6 & #8; #2 & #12;#4 & #6, feeding generator power will require changing over between #4 - #6, or #8 - #10.

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #5 & #8; #1 & #11;feeding generator power will require changing over between #3 - #5, or #8 - #10."

 

[Engineer54]

Hello brother, please refer thread #60, I paste the content here for your convenience.

"My sincere apology, it is my oversight that the red dot was accidentally moved away from VCB #8.

Normal operation conditions:

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #6 & #8; #2 & #12;#4 & #6, feeding generator power will require changing over between #4 - #6, or #8 - #10.

Site "A", VCB "ON" position are #5 & #8; #1 & #11;feeding generator power will require changing over between #3 - #5, or #8 - #10."

To be honest, it's too much of a hassle to keep going back wards and forwards between posts and PDF files to compare your original with Tony's modified drawing (that you say has the correct Open/Closed VCB positions). As i say, i can remember bus couplers on some of the LV switchboards being closed, where none are Closed on Tony's drawings. Which is why i asked you to show the VCB positions when both utility and generator supply are being used concurrently...

 

[chlee-penang]

Dear E54, I agree with you it's too much of a hassle to keep going back and for between posts, anyway it is immaterial to energy saving, let us close this topic rather then wasting your value time.

Thanks for your interest.