What certificates/paperwork should I expect?

[NeilF]

We've had the following work done by an electrician, with the understanding we'd want any/all certificates etc we could get for the work done.

Here's a rough list of what's been done and I'm wondering if some kind individual could give me an idea of what certificate(s)/paperwork we should therefore expect to receive?


1) New LED and MR16 downlights were added to the (upstairs) bedroom.
2) Two downlights were put in a shower room.
3) An extractor fan (with isolator switch) was put in the shower room.
4) A heated towel rail (with timed switch) was put in the shower room.
5) A shower pump was put in for the shower room (with isolator switch).
6) Various plug sockets were moved/added in the bedroom.
7) Water supply earthed - The electrician noticed the water pipes were not earthed so ran a cable from the mains inlet to around our fuse box.
8) An RCD switch/protector was added to the fuse box for the (upstairs) lights circuit (I think).


I believe (7) and (8) were done just to meet certain requirements for certifications?!

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sintra]

You don't state whether new circuits where added or existing circuits added to.

 

[NeilF]

You don't state whether new circuits where added or existing circuits added to.

I'll do my best.

There was obviously an existing light circuit(s) (for the bedroom lights) which I suspect has been used to power the three new sets of lights:-
1) 6 LED downlights on a new dimmer.
2) 2 MR16s on a new dimmer.
3) 2 new downlights for the shower on a new switch.

And hopefully this will help:-
1) New plug sockets were 'spurred'? off of existing plug sockets.
2) There was already an extractor fan up there, but this has been rewired to include an isolator (it didn't before).
3) There was a shower pump before, but this has been moved (& isolated I think) up into loft now.
4) The towel rail is new.

The work was done under the view of making any/all wiring involved "up to spec" and to get a certificate where possible!?

 

[Sintra]

If now additional or new circuits have been installed the a minor works certificate is all that needs to be issued.

 

[Flanders]

Sounds Like you should have a separate minor works cert for all (8 in total ) but may of been easy to give you an installation cert with the alterations detailed

 

[NeilF]

Sounds Like you should have a separate minor works cert for all (8 in total ) but may of been easy to give you an installation cert with the alterations detailed

And this simply vouches they were done to the appropriate requirements (rules/regulations)?

 

[Sintra]

Correct

 

[Flanders]

Yes the electricians name and signature along with the company address should be on the certificate's

 

[telectrix]

a MWC for each altered circuit, not for each addition. i.e. if all those new downlights and the fan come off the upstairs lighting circuit, then it's 1 MWC for that circuit. likewise several sockets added to a socket circuit ( usually a ring ) the 1 MWC covers all additions to that 1 circuit. ytou should end up with 2 or 3 MWCs, or, as has been stated earlier, an EIC ( electrical installation cert.) might be less complicated.

 

[Octopus]

And probably LABC notification for the towel rail!

 

[NeilF]

And probably LABC notification for the towel rail!

For an electric towel rail?

 

[HandySparks]

And probably LABC notification for the towel rail!

Depending on whether it's inside zone 2 or not. (Notification not required now if outside zone 2.)

 

[telectrix]

if it's within zones in bathroom, yes. it's notifiable. who bothers for a small thing like that? not that many.

 

[NeilF]

Depending on whether it's inside zone 2 or not. (Notification not required now if outside zone 2.)

It's in the shower room, 1ft away from shower door. So zone 2?

 

[Octopus]

It's in the shower room, 1ft away from shower door. So zone 2?

I would say yes.

So notification is necessary.

 

[telectrix]

correct. from shower enclosure for 0.6m is zone 2

 

[Flanders]

see Pocket Guide 31
Non-Notifiable work

Installing fixed current- using equipment (Provided the circuit protective device and current - carrying capacity of conductors are suitable)

 

[HandySparks]

Last revsion of part Pee was a big cock up IMHO.
Bathrooms and Shower rooms and Kitchens should have all remained notifiable.

Yes. I bet a fair few electricians don't understand the current regs regarding notification, let alone the general public. I installed some LED downlights in a bathroom yesterday and I think it's crazy that it's not now notifiable. It's got to the point where I think 'why bother at all with part P?'.

 

[Octopus]

Yes. I bet a fair few electricians don't understand the current regs regarding notification, let alone the general public. I installed some LED downlights in a bathroom yesterday and I think it's crazy that it's not now notifiable. It's got to the point where I think 'why bother at all with part P?'.

To be honest, if its in a bathroom, and yes including lights, I do notify.

 

[NeilF]

To be honest, if its in a bathroom, and yes including lights, I do notify.

And excuse my ignorance... What does "notify" mean?

 

[Octopus]

And excuse my ignorance... What does "notify" mean?

Notification to LABC under Part P of the Building Regs revised 2013

Google it - its not the best read, but as a responsible home owner, its worth while being aware of it, especially if you are planning on buying or selling a property!

 

[Des 56]

FFS for the grand sum of £1.60 and a couple of minutes work I'd notify it.

Last revsion of part Pee was a big cock up IMHO.

Bathrooms and Shower rooms and Kitchens should have all remained notifiable.

Try not to be too sad, nothing has changed, they are still notifiable :flowers:

 

[Octopus]

Try not to be too sad, nothing has changed, they are still notifiable :flowers:

Are you in Sunny Wales then?? lol

 

[Des 56]

Are you in Sunny Wales then?? lol

Yes,unfortunately we all have our cross to bear

I wish they would give you our part P


I'm sorry,I should not have said that,I wouldn't wish the nonsense on my worst enemy

 

[Octopus]

Yes,unfortunately we all have our cross to bear

I wish they would give you our part P


I'm sorry,I should not have said that,I wouldn't wish the nonsense on my worst enemy

I feel sorry for the poor sparkies who live on the borders!!

 

[NeilF]

OK guys, maybe you can help me out here. So I have the paperwork now in my hand. I have a "Minor Electrical Certificate [BS 7671]"


In the "Details" section, in the "Description of the minor works" I have "Additional socket". In Details of depatures from BS 7671, I have nothing.

In "Details of Modified Circuit" and "Inspection of Testing Results" the various fields are filled in and most ticked etc.


I must admit I was expecting a little more to be mentioned than a single "socket"? Or is this about right for all the work mentioned in the OP? I'm suprised the all the stuff now on isolators (fans/shower pumps), the new lights, and the new water earthing isn't mentioned? Or is that just not applicable?

 

[Sintra]

You should have had more than 1 MWC as I doubt your lights and sockets are on the same circuit.

 

[Richard Burns]

The lighting changes upstairs and possibly the shower pump and towel rail could all be on the same circuit, although the towel rail would be a bit of a push depending on power. The installation of the RCD would probably come under this as well.

So all that should have had at least one minor electrical installation works certificates.

The changes to the socket positions in the bedroom should have had a minor electrical installation works certificate (which is probably the one you got) although I might have said "move sockets in bedroom" as a description of the work.

I would probably have written somewhere on a certificate the the main water bonding had been installed but this does not require a certificate.

As we are unable to see the job I could be inaccurate on which circuits do what and therefore which and how many certificates you may expect to receive.

 

[NeilF]

So is the suggestion that I should really have two "Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificates" at the very least listing more than just "Additional socket"? I really don't understand why it only lists one minor piece of work ("Additional socket") when so much more was done?

To list the changes again:-
1) New LED and MR16 downlights were added to the (upstairs) bedroom.
2) Two downlights were put in a shower room.
3) An extractor fan (with isolator switch) was put in the shower room.
4) A heated towel rail (with timed switch) was put in the shower room.
5) A shower pump was put in for the shower room (with isolator switch).
6) Various plug sockets were moved/added in the bedroom - Two sockets moved, and 4 new ones added.
7) Water supply earthed - The electrician noticed the water pipes were not earthed so ran a cable from the mains inlet to around our fuse box.
8) An RCD switch/protector was added to the fuse box for the (upstairs) lights circuit (I think).

 

[telectrix]

i'd expect you to have 3 MWCs for that. 1 for items 1,2,&3. another for item 4, and 5 ( if both on same circuit), and 1 for items 6,7 & 8,

- - - Updated - - -

i'd expect you to have 3 MWCs for that. 1 for items 1,2,&3. another for item 4, and 5 ( if both on same circuit), and 1 for items 6,7 & 8,

 

[Sintra]

Think your best option is to call the electrician who carried out the work, as he would be the only person that knows what circuits were altered.