Thought so, wasn't sure. Not working on it personally but the fault seems to be not on the 400V winch or it's 230V control gear but with a supply flat cable on a catenary. They have managed to get it working and NOT tripping with a 30mA RCD in place fed from known "good" cabling. Trying that same RCD on site with the now suspect feed cabling and it tripped continuosly.
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Thought so, wasn't sure. Not working on it personally but the fault seems to be not on the 400V winch or it's 230V control gear but with a supply flat cable on a catenary. They have managed to get it working and NOT tripping with a 30mA RCD in place fed from known "good" cabling. Trying that same RCD on site with the now suspect feed cabling and it tripped continuosly.
OP
Specialist
Faults in situations like that can be an absolute pig to find at times, did they remove the 500ma RCD in the end & just leave it with the 30ma ?
OP
jamminuk
Situation: Light not working in 4th floor bin chute room
No power to light fitting
Nothing tripped at FB
Power at switch
all over floors bin chute rooms lights working??
What am i missing?
No power to light fitting
Nothing tripped at FB
Power at switch
all over floors bin chute rooms lights working??
What am i missing?
OP
Specialist
How is it wired, 1 switch for all lights or independently switched ?. When you say it's dead whats missing, Live or Neutral ?
OP
Specialist
OP
jamminuk
Thanks specialist - Each chute room has it's own switch, it's just dead at the fitting, no power, but there is power at the switch. 2 reds at the switch but at the fitting 3 reds and 1 yellow in one connector block then a black with red tape, neutral and earth going into fitting
OP
Specialist
So are the 3 Reds & 1 yellow the switch return & L loops out to other fittings ? If you've got live In / Out at the switch but no live at the fitting, have you checked for any joints inside conduit boxes that might have come loose ?
OP
jamminuk
Well that's what i would assume, but if there are 2 reds at the switch where did the black switch line come from? As you say there might be some joint hidden somewhere but It's all plaster boarded up, must admit i was a bit rushed when i was there, ran out of money and the van was in a pay & display, but to tell the truth even if i wasnt rushed i'd still be there scratching my head now! Checked at the fittings on the floors above and below to see if anything had come loose but nothing!!
Seriously though.
Same house, had to change a awlful Argos style chandelier. Removed it and found the origional ceiling rose (without the screw on cover) had been pushed into the ceiling with bare terminals and a piece of artic flex used to connect the chandelier. Also, the Neutral was switched, not the Line, leaving the light Live while changing a bulb!
What was going to be a 20 minute job turned into a couple of hours having to remove some nicely polished floorboards!
Same house, had to change a awlful Argos style chandelier. Removed it and found the origional ceiling rose (without the screw on cover) had been pushed into the ceiling with bare terminals and a piece of artic flex used to connect the chandelier. Also, the Neutral was switched, not the Line, leaving the light Live while changing a bulb!
What was going to be a 20 minute job turned into a couple of hours having to remove some nicely polished floorboards!
OP
Specialist
"Say what"
OP
Specialist
Just realised what you said, if you've got a Yellow & 3 Reds in 1 block is there any power on these either L/N or L/E ? you said you've also got a Neutral, Black with red tape & Earth do these feed the actual fitting ? What you really need to find out first is whether you've dropped a Live or Neutral Connection. If the Black with Red tape is the switch return then there has to be a connection hidden somewhere as you said. Are you going back to try finding the problem ?
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OP
Specialist
Don't you just love Cowboys.
OP
jamminuk
Yes definitely, it seems weird how it was working and then it has suddenly stopped, surely must be able to fix it without ripping out the plasterboard to find hthe fault?? Must be a break somewhere though, either that or my tester was ****ing with me lol Thanks for your help though mate, much appreciated. I'll let you knwo the result if i ever find out 
btw there is no pwer at the fitting accross any of these cables :-(
btw there is no pwer at the fitting accross any of these cables :-(
OP
Specialist
Hi mate: Sorry it took so long to reply, yesterday was a bad day & I did'nt notice your post. You reminded me of a Fault I had a while Back: A hallway light suddenly stopped working, when I checked it there was no L/N 240v so I checked L/E & had 240v so proved Neutral was o/c. When i did a visual check everything looked ok, but when I started moving the wires the Neutral came away from the block. Turns out it had snapped where it entered the block, re-cutting & connect back up away to go.
OP
jamminuk
Hi Mate,
I checked accross all L-E L-N N-E, loop and perminant feed, all dead as a door nail
Thanks anyway though, appreciated
I checked accross all L-E L-N N-E, loop and perminant feed, all dead as a door nail
Thanks anyway though, appreciated
OP
Specialist
Anything been changed on that floor before it went out ? from what you've described, would have thought it has to be something like that. I know it's a pig fault finding in a building where you've got no info mate but keep at it & you'll win, bit of a long shot but these are'nt individually fed from a spur or something stupid like that are they ? Let us know how you get on.
- Reaction score
- 4
I had a good Fault to find today, will try to explain without writing a book.
sheltered housing building with 60 self contained flatlets, land lords supply three phase 100A with peak and off-peak boards, building only 5 years old all good install. Got call about a storage heater in hallway not working so checked the usual internal overloads all ok, tested heaters and resistance worked out ok so no problems there but found local isolators turned off so assumed someone turned off. turned on and left. got call next day still not working so checked again this time checked from DB also still no problem but found isolator off again so thought i would trick however was doing this so linked the isolator out for one night to proove it was working as could not be there at midnight to see. next day still not working. After looking closer at DNO equipment i bit the bullet and opened the off-peak contactor and sure enough L2 contact had melted and dropped off inside the Embray enclosure, never seen this before on this type, they normally last for years. If only they had mentioned the other 7 heaters that were not working and they may have had heating a few days earlier.
sheltered housing building with 60 self contained flatlets, land lords supply three phase 100A with peak and off-peak boards, building only 5 years old all good install. Got call about a storage heater in hallway not working so checked the usual internal overloads all ok, tested heaters and resistance worked out ok so no problems there but found local isolators turned off so assumed someone turned off. turned on and left. got call next day still not working so checked again this time checked from DB also still no problem but found isolator off again so thought i would trick however was doing this so linked the isolator out for one night to proove it was working as could not be there at midnight to see. next day still not working. After looking closer at DNO equipment i bit the bullet and opened the off-peak contactor and sure enough L2 contact had melted and dropped off inside the Embray enclosure, never seen this before on this type, they normally last for years. If only they had mentioned the other 7 heaters that were not working and they may have had heating a few days earlier.
OP
Specialist
Now come on: You don't expect customers to tell you the whole story & make things easy do you ?
OP
jamminuk
Hi all, hope alls well.
Experiencing problems with immersion heaters. Various tenants complaining of either no hot water or water not hot enough. In all cases they say the neon is on at the bottom element spur, but no hot water. I tried wiring the bottom element into the booster to see if the element is actually working and it is, test continuity accross element and thermostat both fine. Whole elements and thermostats have been changed, in one case today the lady had the whole immersion heater changed and shes having problems with water temp. I've even been back there during 2pm-3pm when the E7 kicks in for an hour boost to see if there is actually power at the element and there is. I'm saying that it's working electrically and passing it back to them as a plumbing issue but it's really bugging me, i want to know what's causing this.
Experiencing problems with immersion heaters. Various tenants complaining of either no hot water or water not hot enough. In all cases they say the neon is on at the bottom element spur, but no hot water. I tried wiring the bottom element into the booster to see if the element is actually working and it is, test continuity accross element and thermostat both fine. Whole elements and thermostats have been changed, in one case today the lady had the whole immersion heater changed and shes having problems with water temp. I've even been back there during 2pm-3pm when the E7 kicks in for an hour boost to see if there is actually power at the element and there is. I'm saying that it's working electrically and passing it back to them as a plumbing issue but it's really bugging me, i want to know what's causing this.
OP
Ohmyword
Only the one light point faulty? Easy life mate!
Just carried out a PIR on a 3 bed terraced house locally. Every light point was connected incorrectly (thro' light to switch) and most of the cables in the switch points had their cpc's cut off. Tracing the lighting junction boxes in the loft and under landing floor the cpc's were either cut off or left 'dangling' outside the box. So no continuity, No R1 - R2. No nothing, really. The ring- main had good readings (except for one rogue single socket) but discovered that the twerp didn't have any green or green/yellow sleeving but he must have had an abundance of RED sleeving, so he used that, for every earth wire in every socket. (Strange that he never marked the switch wires on the lighting). God save us from the 'well meaning amateur'. Why do people do this??????????
OP
Specialist
Thermostat temp set too low for volume of water in tank or undersized element?
OP
Specialist
How do you mean connected through the light to the switch ? Why do the they do it ? Cause they can & it's a quick buck, they don't give a damn that they're putting peoples lives / property at risk.
OP
Ohmyword
Yeh, I explained to the woman customer how potentially dangerous the installation was! I've been caught out before on that old chestnut. Turn off the lightswitch, the light goes out, you grab hold of the light wire and ZAPP! We've probably all done it at one time or another. These 'voltsticks' are handy little things (for your first line of defence)
OP
Specialist
Your boss is either a bit of a sadist or he thinks your sooty with a Magic wand lol.
OP
Specialist
:thumbs_down:
- Reaction score
- 2,323
Slipped up there, forgot to take an after-shot picture but it’s a Merlin Gerin thing of beauty now…lol
The thing is, I’m sure the boss will go mental when he sees the paperwork for it as I’m sure he hasn’t priced for it. What he doesn’t know is that I cut the whole thing out as it was. There was plenty of slack on the cables in the ceiling void. When he starts shouting, I will just nip to the van, get it out and plonk it on his desk. Followed by the words “ You wanted it tidied up, go ahead, fill your boots” :biggrin:
And don’t go feeling sorry for him. He’s got plenty of money and he will find a way of claiming it back.
The thing is, I’m sure the boss will go mental when he sees the paperwork for it as I’m sure he hasn’t priced for it. What he doesn’t know is that I cut the whole thing out as it was. There was plenty of slack on the cables in the ceiling void. When he starts shouting, I will just nip to the van, get it out and plonk it on his desk. Followed by the words “ You wanted it tidied up, go ahead, fill your boots” :biggrin:
And don’t go feeling sorry for him. He’s got plenty of money and he will find a way of claiming it back.
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OP
gigeyes
One full day of fault finding
RCD tripping, put a test on it and found it was faulty, replacement still tripping, found water in the downstairs lighting circuit, still tripping, found a bees nest in the loft open connectors covered in honey, still tripping, found water in the upstairs inline extract fan printed circuit board. Some days are very tough!
RCD tripping, put a test on it and found it was faulty, replacement still tripping, found water in the downstairs lighting circuit, still tripping, found a bees nest in the loft open connectors covered in honey, still tripping, found water in the upstairs inline extract fan printed circuit board. Some days are very tough!
OP
jamminuk
Gigeyes - Crack me up mate - Hope you got it all working in the end
OP
sparc
Customer had moved into house six months before, in the spring. Didn't really use heating much until following winter, but couldn't get heating or hot water using the controller - only by manually switching on at the boiler. Eventually the controller appeared to die completely, so I was called in to fit new controller and thermostat.
The thermostat put in by previous owners (not long before selling, apparently) was wireless - but I couldn't find a receiver wired into boiler. Then I took the controller off it's mounting plate .... It had looked like it was wired into FCU to the right, but oh, no. The rest you can guess.
The thermostat put in by previous owners (not long before selling, apparently) was wireless - but I couldn't find a receiver wired into boiler. Then I took the controller off it's mounting plate .... It had looked like it was wired into FCU to the right, but oh, no. The rest you can guess.
- Reaction score
- 2,810
You will never cease to be amazed at the dumb and downright crazy things people find to do with electrical installations!
OP
breakerman
Hi, I just bought a light fitting to replace an old cieling rose, but not completed the fitting yet, the only thing i did was to wire the connections in the ceiling into a choc box before recoconnection the supply; however when i tried to reconnect by flicking on the fuse in the consumer unit, the lighting supply wont come back on, doesnt even trip, as if no supply feeding through
OP
breakerman
hi
cheers, i cant seem to upload any pics, but what i'm lookin to do is put the cieling rose back again and start again; my main prob with this is reconsiling the wires in the correct terminals, i have a simple rose attached on one side is brown and the other is blue, as far as cieling wiring is concerned i have two black wires that i believe were inserted in the section on the left attached to the live; a cpc; and 4 diffarant red wires that were split between the section of the other two termanals; two of course being the swith live and the other two that has to go to the nuetral left set of termanals
hope that sounds right:dizzy2:
OP
sparc
That doesn't sound right to me, but maybe I'm reading it wrong. You should affectively have four cables, including the lamp cord. Assuming the existing cables are all old colours you would start with loop in and loop out - this is the daisy chain of supply power from one ceiling fitting to the next. So figure out which are the loop in-loop out conductors and connect the two reds to the longer of two middle terminal blocks (live), and the two blacks to the shorter of two middle terminal blocks (neutral). If this is connected correctly - and you haven't added anything else yet - all the other lights on that circuit should now work correctly - once CPCs are connected.
.The next thing to connect is the switch live which - ideally - someone will have marked by putting red (/brown) sleeving on the black - to so it's actually a live. The red goes to same terminal block as other reds, giving a live feed to the switch. The sleeved switch live back from the switch goes to the terminal block on the edge. The brown coloured cord lead goes to this. The blue coloured lead in the cord from the lamp joins the blacks on that terminal block.
All the CPCs should then by sleeved G/Y and connected to the earth block.
Don't forget to hook the two cord leads over the pegs either side of ceiling plate to support the weight of the lamp fitting and shade.
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OP
breakerman
hi, thx, these are old cables and there is no sleeving, the other thing there is no cord as such, the light is operated by a normal swith, cheers
OP
breakerman
but thank you, i do understand the daisy chane and relise now why the other lights arent working, becuase the connection is not in place
OP
Ohmyword
Most ceiling roses that you can purchase from any DIY store will have a wiring diagram in them. When I am presented with 'one of these' (usually on a Sunday afternoon) I always start by 'ringing out' and finding the switchwire. Unless you have a 'parallel light' connection (2nd light on same switch) then the other wires are live, nuetral & cpc (earths).
- Reaction score
- 356
Just back from call out and was faced with this....
Main fuse had blown right out the cut out.... leaving the fuse carrier pins still in there !!
Different one for me.
Worked along side DNO chaps - removed anything the customers side that had got fire/heat damaged, done all my checks to make sure everything internally ok.
New cut out unit installed ----> power back on (minus a couple of fire damaged circuits + mini CU for shower)
Back Monday to re-do the rest.
DNO said to send them the bill as it was a faulty cut out.
Very lucky customer, this could have a been a lot lot worst, fire brigade turned up but luckily it had gone out in time
Main fuse had blown right out the cut out.... leaving the fuse carrier pins still in there !!
Different one for me.
Worked along side DNO chaps - removed anything the customers side that had got fire/heat damaged, done all my checks to make sure everything internally ok.
New cut out unit installed ----> power back on (minus a couple of fire damaged circuits + mini CU for shower)
Back Monday to re-do the rest.
DNO said to send them the bill as it was a faulty cut out.
Very lucky customer, this could have a been a lot lot worst, fire brigade turned up but luckily it had gone out in time
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OP
Ohmyword
I have pictures of a '800KMF' (80Amp sw. fuse) very similar to these. It was virtually unrecognisable. I'll see if I can get them up on here :goofy::goofy:
OP
mogga
yes specialy old cast ones hence the advice if ever coming across anything like this CALL DNO do NOT attempt to pull fuse or touch your self turn off main switches and let DNO do their stuff
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