Certification of a rewire of kitchen lights (Part P) Please read

[thestig246]

Hi all,

i am fairly new to self certifying my own work and have a few quires. Basically i have been asked to put some lights in a kichen and bedroom above sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately after some investigation there was no proper lighting supply present at that end of the house, mr diy had wired lights off sockets and cooker points with 2 core flex

Obviously comming off this dodgy wiring is not an option and i have explained to the customer it is unsafe and the whole house needs rewiring. In the meantime i need to get some kitchen lights wired so i intented to come off a ring main and put in a fused spur to run the lights. As there is no other safe supplys to come off and the ring main seems in a reasonable condition.

As for signing this off i was hoping to complete a minor works certificate as it is just an alteration and extention of another circuit. so my question is how would I go about this??

Do i complete a ring main test or go i treat the fused spur as the new circuit im just abit confused as to what i should be doing?

Any help would be appreciated
Dan

 

[telectrix]

Do i complete a ring main test or go i treat the fused spur as the new circuit


​it's acceptable to do either, IMO.

 

[Bobster]

Hi all,

i am fairly new to self certifying my own work and have a few quires. Basically i have been asked to put some lights in a kichen and bedroom above sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately after some investigation there was no proper lighting supply present at that end of the house, mr diy had wired lights off sockets and cooker points with 2 core flex

Obviously comming off this dodgy wiring is not an option and i have explained to the customer it is unsafe and the whole house needs rewiring. In the meantime i need to get some kitchen lights wired so i intented to come off a ring main and put in a fused spur to run the lights. As there is no other safe supplys to come off and the ring main seems in a reasonable condition.

As for signing this off i was hoping to complete a minor works certificate as it is just an alteration and extention of another circuit. so my question is how would I go about this??

Do i complete a ring main test or go i treat the fused spur as the new circuit im just abit confused as to what i should be doing?

Any help would be appreciated
Dan

Because of one lighting circuit done wrong?

 

[Andy78]

Hi all,

i am fairly new to self certifying my own work and have a few quires. Basically i have been asked to put some lights in a kichen and bedroom above sounds simple enough right? Unfortunately after some investigation there was no proper lighting supply present at that end of the house, mr diy had wired lights off sockets and cooker points with 2 core flex

Obviously comming off this dodgy wiring is not an option and i have explained to the customer it is unsafe and the whole house needs rewiring. In the meantime i need to get some kitchen lights wired so i intented to come off a ring main and put in a fused spur to run the lights. As there is no other safe supplys to come off and the ring main seems in a reasonable condition.

As for signing this off i was hoping to complete a minor works certificate as it is just an alteration and extention of another circuit. so my question is how would I go about this??

Do i complete a ring main test or go i treat the fused spur as the new circuit im just abit confused as to what i should be doing?

Any help would be appreciated
Dan

This however, is completely unacceptable without having carried out a full EICR. Simply basing your recommendations on seeing a small percentage of the installation is unprofessional and potentially misleading.

 

[Buckfast]

As you have already noted defective wiring, do a full ring main test and check bonding prior to any alterations. Look at Reg 132.16.

 

[Anthony S]

This however, is completely unacceptable without having carried out a full EICR. Simply basing your recommendations on seeing a small percentage of the installation is unprofessional and potentially misleading.

The home owner won't accept a rewire is needed with out a few more opinions from Professional Electricians.

 

[D Skelton]

Blatant wind up!

 

[thestig246]

This is not a wind up why with such negative comments i asked a genuine question!

The house does need a rewire as none of the upstairs lights has any earth and some of the socket and cooker circuits are in poor condition. The customer requested that they would like it rewired at some point as its a mess. What i cant understand is an electrician had changed the consumer unit approx 6-7 years ago and none of these issues where picked up. How can you change a c/u and connect it to old wiring, i dont get it myself...

Wiring the lights off a fused spur is just temporary as like said they would like a full rewire for peace of mind, i just want to certificate what i do so i am covered.

Thanks for the help.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

This is not a wind up why with such negative comments i asked a genuine question!

The house does need a rewire as none of the upstairs lights has any earth and some of the socket and cooker circuits are in poor condition. The customer requested that they would like it rewired at some point as its a mess. What i cant understand is an electrician had changed the consumer unit approx 6-7 years ago and none of these issues where picked up. How can you change a c/u and connect it to old wiring, i dont get it myself...

Wiring the lights off a fused spur is just temporary as like said they would like a full rewire for peace of mind, i just want to certificate what i do so i am covered.

Thanks for the help.

no. Not necessarily. All lights and fittings could simply be class 2 for the rest of eternity.

also, wiring lights off a fused spur does not have to be temporary. Its fine forever.

 

[Octopus]

This is not a wind up why with such negative comments i asked a genuine question!

The house does need a rewire as none of the upstairs lights has any earth and some of the socket and cooker circuits are in poor condition. The customer requested that they would like it rewired at some point as its a mess. What i cant understand is an electrician had changed the consumer unit approx 6-7 years ago and none of these issues where picked up. How can you change a c/u and connect it to old wiring, i dont get it myself...

Wiring the lights off a fused spur is just temporary as like said they would like a full rewire for peace of mind, i just want to certificate what i do so i am covered.

Thanks for the help.

You can only really back up that statement with an EICR covering the circuits in question - so did you formally test them all? Appearances can be deceiving!

 

[thestig246]

its has lights wired off a 6mm cables which runs a multitude of things... is wired in two core 0.75mm flex and has metal fittings, such as spotlights, outside lights and strip lights ect. theres a single box with block connectors about 50mm away from the bath, it has the old style lamps holders with the wooden bases and same for the switches.

After seeing all this i don't see how it would be any benefit carrying out a condition report as its pretty clear its unacceptable, and the customer asked knows its unsafe. and wants a rewire at a later date for peace of mind.

Thanks for your help, so am i right in saying i can use a minor works to certify coming off the ring with a f/spur to run a few lights.

 

[Anthony S]

You sure the installation is ok for alterations ?

 

[R G]

No problem with the minor works cert, as long as its not for work in a special location , as long as circuit your using is compliant..

I would also say that it would be best to advise customer of the condition of the remaining installation and this would be best done on a condition report

 

[Octopus]

its has lights wired off a 6mm cables which runs a multitude of things... is wired in two core 0.75mm flex and has metal fittings, such as spotlights, outside lights and strip lights ect. theres a single box with block connectors about 50mm away from the bath, it has the old style lamps holders with the wooden bases and same for the switches.

After seeing all this i don't see how it would be any benefit carrying out a condition report as its pretty clear its unacceptable, and the customer asked knows its unsafe. and wants a rewire at a later date for peace of mind.

Thanks for your help, so am i right in saying i can use a minor works to certify coming off the ring with a f/spur to run a few lights.

Sorry mate but I disagree. If you are going to suggest rewiring you need a report to back up your statement.

Fingers crossed the homeowner will seek a 2nd opinion.

 

[thestig246]

well the downstairs ring seems in a reasonable condition, and is protected by 30ma. as im only adding and altering existing circuit. I though a minor works would suffice.

 

[Plonker 3]

No problem with the minor works cert, as long as its not for work in a special location , as long as circuit your using is compliant..

I would also say that it would be best to advise customer of the condition of the remaining installation and this would be best done on a condition report

A MWC can also be used to certify works in special locations.

 

[thestig246]

I didn't actually suggest a full rewire but i informed them what id found and they were already aware that its a mess. and asked about rewiring. I didnt realise what i was letting myself in for untill i made some inspections...

 

[Octopus]

well the downstairs ring seems in a reasonable condition, and is protected by 30ma. as im only adding and altering existing circuit. I though a minor works would suffice.

IR test results?

 

[thestig246]

IR results were above 1m ohm, obviously its not ideal but still complies with regulations as it isnt below.. All the more reason for rewire as theres clearly a breakdown somewhere.

 

[Octopus]

Above 1 meg ohms requires investigation....

Above 2 meg ohms is OK

What were the readings?