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Discuss Does a 13A plug in oven need to be wired into a cooker switch in rental properties ? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi, a landlord got in touch this weekend as they wanted to change an old gas oven for an electric one in their rental property.
It would be a small single oven, under 1.5 kwh, and comes supplied and fitted with a plug from the manufacturer. The plan was simply to plug this into an available existing socket on the kitchen ring, as per manufacturer guidelines, and accessible for isolation.

BUT - Somewhere between the letting agency and tenant, this was blocked and they were told that as it's a rental property, it needs to be hard wired with a cooker switch.

I appreciate there are things to consider when taking this approach, particularly with regard to demand if it is already heavily loaded, but for simplicity let's say that there is ample capacity for the oven.

I can't see anything in the regs or Part P which supports the claim from the letting agency. Am I missing anything that I should be considering for rental properties ?

Cutting the 13A plug and wiring into a switch on the ring with a 32A OCPD is not an approach I plan to take, but again I'd appreciate any thoughts on this if I'm dismissing it incorrectly.


ALSO.... last one !
Would the answer be different if the existing ring was an old Wylex 3036 30A non-RCD, rather than 32A RCD protected ?

Thanks in anticipation
 

Spoon

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BUT - Somewhere between the letting agency and tenant, this was blocked and they were told that as it's a rental property, it needs to be hard wired with a cooker switch.
Who blocked this?
I'd question whoever made this decision. Ask for a regulation number.
I can't see a reason why it can't be plugged into a standard socket, like it's been manufactured to.
 

davesparks

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It sounds like somebody in an office has heard from their mate about a Regulation that existed 20 years ago and is now spouting it as gospel truth.
 
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  • #4
Who blocked this?
I'd question whoever made this decision. Ask for a regulation number.
I can't see a reason why it can't be plugged into a standard socket, like it's been manufactured to.
Thanks Spoon, the landlord is a friend, and I suspect the letting agency has their own electrician who has said this.
I fully intend to push for the alleged regulation stopping the approach, but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything first.
 

ferg

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Perhaps they just mean it needs to have an accessible isolator marked cooker / oven?.
 

Andy78

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Probably more likely to do with a letting agent policy/insurance requirement of not providing plug in appliances for tenants, and they'd like it to be fixed in ?
 
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  • #7
It sounds like somebody in an office has heard from their mate about a Regulation that existed 20 years ago and is now spouting it as gospel truth.
Thanks davesparks, I suspect the same the same but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything first, particularly about any additional requirements for rentals.
 

davesparks

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Thanks davesparks, I suspect the same the same but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything first, particularly about any additional requirements for rentals.
As far as I know there are no laws or regulation specific to electrical installations in rentals.
As mentioned earlier in the thread there may be a requirement from an insurance company or the lettings agency but I find this pretty unlikely.
My experience of lettings agencies as both a tenant and a contractor is that all they care about is getting their money, and don't like missing out from not using their preferred contractor.
 
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  • #9
Perhaps they just mean it needs to have an accessible isolator marked cooker / oven?.
Hi ferg, I don't think so in this particular case. The agents (or their electrician) have said "Regulations do not permit a plug in oven, and needs to be hardwired with an RCD".
This may well have been a genuine comment based on whatever question they were asked by the agent in the first place, so I'm not trying to trip up the source of this statement but I do want to know for when I come across this again in future.
....I'm sure they wouldn't give misleading regulation information to get extra work, ...would they !?!? (oh a whole new thread needed there!)
 

Andy78

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Hi ferg, I don't think so in this particular case. The agents (or their electrician) have said "Regulations do not permit a plug in oven, and needs to be hardwired with an RCD".
This may well have been a genuine comment based on whatever question they were asked by the agent in the first place, so I'm not trying to trip up the source of this statement but I do want to know for when I come across this again in future.
....I'm sure they wouldn't give misleading regulation information to get extra work, ...would they !?!? (oh a whole new thread needed there!)
Ask which regulation requires an RCD for ovens or oven outlets, and which regulation prohibits the use of a plug in oven in rented accommodation.

I don't think you're getting the work but should be good for a laugh, and if you can expose the agent's pet sparky as a bullshitter it might make them think.
 
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  • #11
Probably more likely to do with a letting agent policy/insurance requirement of not providing plug in appliances for tenants, and they'd like it to be fixed in ?
Thanks Andy78, that could well be part of it yes, I'll also enquire on that path. PAT testing was another thought I had but it hasn't been mentioned by the agency yet.
 
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  • #12
Ask which regulation requires an RCD for ovens or oven outlets, and which regulation prohibits the use of a plug in oven in rented accommodation.

I don't think you're getting the work but should be good for a laugh, and if you can expose the agent's pet sparky as a bullshitter it might make them think.
I won't be getting the work, but nor will their pet. The landlord has gone for a direct gas replacement instead as they were up against it time wise. So the poor guidance has cost the landlord quite a bit extra which I'm sure they will want to follow up on.
 
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  • #13
As far as I know there are no laws or regulation specific to electrical installations in rentals.
As mentioned earlier in the thread there may be a requirement from an insurance company or the lettings agency but I find this pretty unlikely.
My experience of lettings agencies as both a tenant and a contractor is that all they care about is getting their money, and don't like missing out from not using their preferred contractor.
Thanks again for sharing that davesparks, useful to know
 

davesparks

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Hi ferg, I don't think so in this particular case. The agents (or their electrician) have said "Regulations do not permit a plug in oven, and needs to be hardwired with an RCD".
Wow, they'd have a fit if they saw a non-domestic kitchen where its quite common to see most appliances plugged in for ease of maintainence or swapping out!
 

Wilko

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Hi - if it comes with a plug I’d stick with it. It could be changed out for an FCU, but if the circuit has no RCD and you need to extend it to add the FCU ...
 

ruston

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Their electrician may be used to fitting Howdens ovens that no longer can be fitted with plugs according to them . There is a label on the flex with this instruction on it . They are not small ovens though.
 

telectrix

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a plug-in oven needs a socket. end of. agent is bullsh1tting.( but they are specially trained in that. they sell new build crap.)
 

telectrix

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that's just manufacturers trying to get out of replacing faulty crap. in a court of law it would not hold water. ( a bit like beko washing machines)
 
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Hi - if it comes with a plug I’d stick with it. It could be changed out for an FCU, but if the circuit has no RCD and you need to extend it to add the FCU ...
Thanks Wilko, interesting thought ! ....and whether a minor works to swap an accessory but adding an FCU at the same time requires that little FCU to be RCD'd to be 18th compliant. Hmmm.
 

Paignton pete

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Thanks Wilko, interesting thought ! ....and whether a minor works to swap an accessory but adding an FCU at the same time requires that little FCU to be RCD'd to be 18th compliant. Hmmm.
Why does it need to be rcd protected?
It’s not a socket, it’s not a lighting circuit.
 

pirate

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As far as i know, in Scotland anyway, there is no such requirement. If the manufacturers fit a plug and say it's to be plugged in, that's the way to go.
Indeed, for non-electrically minded landlords who have a hands-on approach, many prefer the plug-in option for all appliances, such as cookers,hobs,washing machine, dishwasher etc as it makes swapping out a faulty appliance quick and easy with less hassle for landlord and tenant alike. It makes ISITEE simpler too.
 

telectrix

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As far as i know, in Scotland anyway, there is no such requirement. If the manufacturers fit a plug and say it's to be plugged in, that's the way to go.
Indeed, for non-electrically minded landlords who have a hands-on approach, many prefer the plug-in option for all appliances, such as cookers,hobs,washing machine, dishwasher etc as it makes swapping out a faulty appliance quick and easy with less hassle for landlord and tenant alike. It makes ISITEE simpler too.
would not be appropriate for anchors.you'd lose so many you'd be adrift on a lee shore. every pirate's nightmare.
 

pirate

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Certainly not appropriate for anchors, Tel! Plug-in anchor and chain is bound to fail, so I always make off the bitter end into a SFCU. This is not only more resistant to "pull" than a plug in a socket, but it means that as the anchor chain goes over a metal roller in the bow, and the forestay is connected to the roller housing, then in an electrical storm, if lightning strikes the rigging, it is diverted to the sea, shivering, but not charring, my timbers...
As for Lee Shore? Indeed, every seagoing man's nightmare...I should know...I went out with her once, in Portsmouth!
 

davesparks

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If you cut the plug off some appliances it voids the warranty.
Does it? Care to back this up with some facts or are you just going on hearsay and what the manufacturers have to say in the subject?

As far as the law is concerned then cutting the plug off only voids any warranty claim directly relating to the plug, not the rest of the appliance.
 

marconi

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The advantage of plug and socket is that come the time it needs to be cleaned professionally - which in my experience they need doing much more often than the one in one's own home - the isolation is dead simple - one pulls the labelled plug out.
 

pirate

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Very true, Marconi! I have changed ovens after 6 month lets because they are so filthy I couldn't contemplate a professional oven-cleaner person wanting to deal with it.
What DO they cook in there? I clean mine once a month, or so, and it always looks like new.

BTW, what do you all use to clean the acres of stainless steel in a kitchen? Fridge-freezers, ovens, extractor fans...I tried everyting from commercial stuff to old wives' remedies...and actually a professional cleaner pointed me at the perfect solution...but i want to hear everyone's views before revealing the miracle cure!
 

James

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If it comes supplied with a plug, plug it in.

if it comes without one, have a spark wire it in.

why do people have to complicate matters and quote laws that don't exist anywhere other than in their own minds??
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
As far as i know, in Scotland anyway, there is no such requirement. If the manufacturers fit a plug and say it's to be plugged in, that's the way to go.
Indeed, for non-electrically minded landlords who have a hands-on approach, many prefer the plug-in option for all appliances, such as cookers,hobs,washing machine, dishwasher etc as it makes swapping out a faulty appliance quick and easy with less hassle for landlord and tenant alike. It makes ISITEE simpler too.
Cheers Pirate
 
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  • #36
All, thanks very much for taking the time to reply and sharing your knowledge and experience.
In summary :
  • There are no additional electrical or building regs for a rental property for this situation
  • If it's got a plug, use it.
  • If you need to add a new spur it'll need RCD protection
  • If you hard wire into a new SFCU, need to consider whether the cables warrant RCD protection
    • ....I might ask my scheme for their view on that one rather than stretch this thread
  • And finally, in all situations, beware of bullshitters !
 

davesparks

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BTW, what do you all use to clean the acres of stainless steel in a kitchen? Fridge-freezers, ovens, extractor fans...I tried everyting from commercial stuff to old wives' remedies...and actually a professional cleaner pointed me at the perfect solution...but i want to hear everyone's views before revealing the miracle cure!
WD40 makes a pretty good stainless steel cleaner and polish
 

UNG

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If you cut the plug off some appliances it voids the warranty.
Why do people insist on perpetuating this myth

It does not void the warranty what it does do is prevent the appliance engineer carrying out safe isolation of the appliance to carry out repairs if it is hard wired.
They are trained that safe isolation is to pull the plug end of no other method of safe isolation is available to them and they will refuse to repair unless someone else will disconnect the appliance that is not voiding the warranty it is the procedure they are trained to follow
 

multimick

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lettings agents , the great rip off of our time, what do they actually do ? what knowledege do they have ? here they are quoting regs that don't even exist, driving about in new minis with logo's on doors. Hey ho rant over :mad:
 

Lister1987

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Going back to the origins of this thread a sec (sorry PCB), If an item is hardwired; is there a requirement to have a means of electrical isolation (FCU) at worktop height? If not why not - if the only means of isolation is back at the fuseboard, is that not a bit daft?

I can understand having FCUs, what they do etc (and why for some wierd reason people not liking them on thier kitchen worktop real-estate) but surely there has to be something somewhere that says if you can reach the switch to turn it off (because the appliance is in front of it), then an accessible switch in the local area should be provided? - hide it in a cupboard and label but just provide the bloody thing,,,,,
 
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pirate

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Not all letting agents are rip-off merchants...just saying...

Oh, and the miracle cure for cleaning stainless steel appliances?


you can thank me later!
 

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