Is this JB adequate for the design and use.

[mainline]

Damn sight worse than an Ashley 301 or 401.

Nothing wrong with them if they are correctly fitted, but a lot aren't.

 

[mainline]

Things never change.......but more people may be qualified to do it, these days.

I would rather be experienced than qualified.

 

[ipf]

I would rather be experienced than qualified.

That's my point. What do quals count for these days?

 

[ipf]

Nothing wrong with them if they are correctly fitted, but a lot aren't.

....and that's my point, too......why keep reiterating?

 

[DPG]

Where's the OP gone anyway?

 

[ipf]

Where's the OP gone anyway?

Wiring for a swimming pool, maybe?

 

[7029 dave]

Where's the OP gone anyway?

He's bored with this thread

 

[mainline]

....and that's my point, too......why keep reiterating?

Seen plnety Wagos just thrown under floors and in voids without a box of any kind

You replied, "Damn sight worse than an Ashley 301 or 401." meaning that the wago's that are being used without enclosures are worse than a 301 or 401.

My reply to that was Only if the 301 etc is fitted properly.

 

[ipf]

You replied, "Damn sight worse than an Ashley 301 or 401." meaning that the wago's that are being used without enclosures are worse than a 301 or 401.

My reply to that was Only if the 301 etc is fitted properly.

Agreed, but I think that's a bit obvious, don't you.

 

[mainline]

Agreed, but I think that's a bit obvious, don't you.

Obviously not to some, as there are still probably 100s fitted incorrectly.

 

[ipf]

Obviously not to some, as there are still probably 100s fitted incorrectly.

I'd say that's probably in the hundreds of thousands.
But well into the millions done correctly.
I don't presume the majority of workers are to blame. I Know we see the tip of the iceberg of bad installs on here but very, very few of the decent installations carried out are brought to light.

I would rather be experienced than qualified.

I've a preference for both.

 

[mainline]

I've a preference for both.

It was in relation to having a choice between Qualified or Experience.

My preference would be, if given the option and I could afford it, would be not to have to work at all

 

[mainline]

Where's the OP gone anyway?

Brings to mind that scene from the parody Airplane film.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My question was in using them without an enclosure at all.

Also, I think the enclosure would have to be stamped MF if used as BS 5733 Maintenance Free box.

Do they have to be stamped MF or just reach the criteria, certainly the Wago box's are not stamped, but do reach the standard, but then are they meant to be maintenance free, the lighting junction box's for downlighter's in a ceiling for instance can be pulled down to change a downlighter and none of the one's I have available are stamped MF.

Seems it was added at the last amendment to 526.3.

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

 

[loz2754]

Only certain Wago boxes are MF, and are stamped as such.

 

[mainline]

Do they have to be stamped MF or just reach the criteria, certainly the Wago box's are not stamped, but do reach the standard, but then are they meant to be maintenance free, the lighting junction box's for downlighter's in a ceiling for instance can be pulled down to change a downlighter and none of the one's I have available are stamped MF.

Seems it was added at the last amendment to 526.3.

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

It may be worth having a look on the Wago site, To be compliant when fitting MF Wago It's not just a case of chucking the connections inside and snapping the lid shut, you have to follow the manufacture's instructions including doing the calcs.

 

[DPG]

It may be worth having a look on the Wago site, To be compliant when fitting MF Wago It's not just a case of chucking the connections inside and snapping the lid shut, you have to follow the manufacture's instructions including doing the calcs.

And the cable tie

 

[mainline]

And the cable tie

There was also a thing about using the proper mount, instead of whacking a screw through it, if I remember correctly.


Cheaper just to crimp and put in a used chewing gum container with some ties

 

[nicebutdim]

And the cable tie

It's a sad state of affairs when one piddly little cable tie makes the difference between a box being considered maintenance free or not.

 

[brianmoooore]

Don't dis the cable tie. They make all the difference between my car being roadworthy and not.

 

[nicebutdim]

Don't dis the cable tie. They make all the difference between my car being roadworthy and not.

Not so long ago the same was often said about newspaper and isopon.

 

[mainline]

Not so long ago the same was often said about newspaper and isopon.

I don't think many decent testers would fall for that these days, or do they ?

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't think many testers fall for that these days, or do they ?

They never did at the government test centres we have in NI, but many unwitting buyers were not so fortunate.

 

[SparkySy]

MF connections have their place but I only tend to use them as a last resort and still prefer any joint to be accessible if possible, at an accessory or outlet is my preferred method. Spent too many hours trying to locate faults on hidden joints!

A cable tie is currently holding my gear linkage together and has been for around 250miles as its in such an inaccessible position I couldn't get in it fix it properly, I could just get one hand to the damn thing and a tie. Managed to get it round the linkage and do it up one handed with a lot of cursing and swearing!
Sy

 

[Mike Johnson]

It's a sad state of affairs when one piddly little cable tie makes the difference between a box being considered maintenance free or not.

Well I can't open a Wago box without a screwdriver inserted under the lid and levering the thing open, the lid clips are certainly tough.

 

[nicebutdim]

Well I can't open a Wago box without a screwdriver inserted under the lid and levering the thing open, the lid clips are certainly tough.

You can squeeze the front and open them, but correctly closed boxes won't open unintentionally. I was getting at the fact that a robust and secure box is only considered maintenance free when secured with something little stronger than cobweb.

I get that some distinction must be drawn, but all too often such distinctions within BS7671 seem quite arbitrary.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Arthritic hands means I can't squeeze anything with any pressure let alone a Wago box, but I was talking about the lighting downlight box's Like the pic below, not the bigger ones which may open with a good squeeze, but as said previously, the manufactures instruction say secure with a cable tie, a**e covering IMO.

 

[loz2754]

The Wago light boxes are not MF.
Although they don't need to be MF when they're used for downlight connections, because they are accessible by means of the hole in the ceiling in most cases.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Quite true, but the only reason is because they are not marked as such, they do meet all the criteria to be MF.

 

[mainline]

Quite true, but the only reason is because they are not marked as such, they do meet all the criteria to be MF.

For one, they are moulded differently so that the connectors slide in to ensure that the levers' can't open.
So no, they don't fit the criteria.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you put them side by side the levers can't open.

 

[mainline]

If you put them side by side the levers can't open.

Better still would be to use push fit ones, but it still wouldn't make the boxes compliant for MF use.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Good to see you are still following my post so closely.

 

[mainline]

Good to see you are still following my post so closely.

I usually reply when I think someone is giving out misinformation.

 

[pirate]

Did a wee job for my neighbour yesterday...extending a ring to incorporate a double socket...didn't have the Wago box size I wanted, just a bigger one, but it's behind a dishwasher...
No earth on the existing socket, but hey...the CPCs had just fallen out of the terminal, so easily fixed...
Got a Schneider box, bunged the 221s in, the lid is quite deep, so it all fitted, just, after some squeezing...all worked fine, tested ok, plenty space behind the d/w...and then saw there was a 700mm worktop, so a Wago XL would have fitted in fine on the back wall,...
Look...look...look again! My knees though...
Going back on Monday to make a proper job of it!
Was a bit worried that the socket had a spur through a white, round JB...but it's all ok...that spur just feeds the double socket in the living room...and only a TV, sound bar, HiFi system, Alexa, an 8-way power strip, into which is plugged a 6-way...two heaters. 2 table lamps, the Christmas tree...
Honestly, the previous owner was nuts! Every time I go there I find sh*t that would make you cringe! However, at least he used H0RN5 flex from the JB through the wall to the socket! Obviously knew the d/w might leak at some point...

 

[Mike Johnson]

I usually reply when I think someone is giving out misinformation.

I bet you keep score as well.

 

[davesparks]

I think, perhaps, it may be time to stop flogging this particular horse, I feel it may be dead.

 

[ipf]

I think, perhaps, it may be time to stop flogging this particular horse, I feel it may be dead.

Time to drop the dead donkey.

 

[SJD]

Time to drop the dead donkey.

No no no, I'm counting on this thread that started with a photo of an all-too-common sight in many an older loft reaching 100 posts. ...

It does show that there is a lot of misunderstanding about the use of Wago & Ideal connectors, their enclosures, and when they can or can not be called maintenance free.

 

[Petej999]

I found this JB in the loft, the mice have eaten the JB cover as well as some of the wiring, but aside all that in your opinion do you think the JB is overloaded?

View attachment 104232

NO