MCS Accreditation

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Everyone,

We have started this thread to give everyone an area to discuss MCS Certification and any issues or questions associated with it.

Easy MCS are the UK's leading MCS Specialists and we are happy to help and advise if anyone has any queries.

Many Thanks

 

[Worcester]

@EasyMCS, good to see you here

Some of the most common questions for new starters are how to fill in the G83 Stage 1 , Stage 2 and the G59/2 Applications forms,

Could you perhaps post a pdf of each here, with explanatory notes of what should go in each box.

Many thanks, and looking forward to your input.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Also a nice simple step by step (general guide) list on the path to MCS accreditation. 2 out of 6 on my PV course knew what was required, the other 4 thought the course was it. It was quite disheartning to see their faces drop when they found out the PV course was the easy bit anod only the first step. Too may people are following course advertising without knowing what lies ahead.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

@EasyMCS, good to see you here

Some of the most common questions for new starters are how to fill in the G83 Stage 1 , Stage 2 and the G59/2 Applications forms,

Could you perhaps post a pdf of each here, with explanatory notes of what should go in each box.

Many thanks, and looking forward to your input.

Hi Worcester

Unfortunetely we are not allowed to post copies of the G83 or G59 forms but i can certainly help with explaining the methods required to complete the document. can you please advise which sections you are finding difficult and i will do my best to help.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Also a nice simple step by step (general guide) list on the path to MCS accreditation. 2 out of 6 on my PV course knew what was required, the other 4 thought the course was it. It was quite disheartning to see their faces drop when they found out the PV course was the easy bit anod only the first step. Too may people are following course advertising without knowing what lies ahead.

Hi Graeme,

I am happy to offer an insight into the process required to gain MCS accreditation.

Stage 1 - Product Training.

During the MCS inspection the assessor will look to see that you have been on an approved training course which covers the necessary elements within the MCS documents e.g. MIS3002 MCS guide to solar PV. The most common courses are NIC EIC, Logic, Bpec & the new and improved city and guilds 2399. The training will cover the requirements for mounting the panels, ensuring the roof is correctly sealed, connecting the inverters and completing the installation including informing the DNO and completing the G83 or G59 forms.

Stage 2 - you must have a quality management system that conforms to the standards outlined in the MIS001 Guide to MCS, this includes internal documents, external documents, forms and procedures. in the form of a document issue list. The assessor will spend around 70% of the day on this and will look to see that you have not only used it for an example installation but also that you fully understand it and can maintain the QMS going forward. This is the element that we offer and please feel free to contact one of our team to discuss this section further.

Stage 3 - Example Installation, you must use your experience in your chosen area i.e. electrician or heating engineer and the knowledge gaining during your product training alongside your management system to produce an example installation. This can be on your own property or a client’s house and once you are accredited will be full eligible for the FITS or RHI although only one installation can be completed prior to assessment.

Stage 4 - Assessment - The day would consist of around 70% on your QMS and 30% on the technology / example installation. They will look to see you have followed the procedures in your QMS and completed the installation in line with your training and experience. The assessor will take for granted that if you are qualified to do the work i.e. Part P and 17th edition you have the experience so will be more interested in the paper work. In 12 months’ time you will have your annual audit which will be conducted by a more technical inspector who will pick an installation at random to assess but will still be keen to see that you are maintaining your QMS.

I hope this helps and please keep the questions coming!

 

[Worcester]

I can certainly help with explaining the methods required to complete the document.

Hows about a simple guide on how each question should be answered, Starting with the G83/1-1 Appendix 3 Form:

OK, So here goes:

SSEG Details:
Manufacturer and model type: What do I put here?
Serial number of SSEG: What do I put here?
Serial number / version numbers of software (where appropriate): What do I put here?
SSEG rating (A) and power factor (under normal running conditions): What does this mean and what do I put here?
Maximum peak short circuit current (A): What do I put here? How do I measure it? Where do I get the information to go in here from?
Type of prime mover and fuel source: What do I put here?
Location of SSEG within the installation: What do I put here?
Location of multi pole isolator: What do I put here?

Installer Details:
Accreditation/Qualification: What do I put here?

Information to be Enclosed:
Final copy of circuit diagram: What do I put here? / Where do I get this from?
SSEG Test Report (Appendix 4) or web address if appropriate (not necessary if already provided e.g. under a Stage 2 connection): What is this? What do I put here?
Computer print out (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings: Where do I get this from? What do I put here?
Electricity meter(s) make and model: Which Meter? What do I put here?

Declaration - to be completed by Installer:
What do I put here? or do I just tick them?

Thx

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hows about a simple guide on how each question should be answered, Starting with the G83/1-1 Appendix 3 Form:

OK, So here goes:

SSEG Details:
Manufacturer and model type: What do I put here?
Serial number of SSEG: What do I put here?
Serial number / version numbers of software (where appropriate): What do I put here?
SSEG rating (A) and power factor (under normal running conditions): What does this mean and what do I put here?
Maximum peak short circuit current (A): What do I put here? How do I measure it? Where do I get the information to go in here from?
Type of prime mover and fuel source: What do I put here?
Location of SSEG within the installation: What do I put here?
Location of multi pole isolator: What do I put here?

Installer Details:
Accreditation/Qualification: What do I put here?

Information to be Enclosed:
Final copy of circuit diagram: What do I put here? / Where do I get this from?
SSEG Test Report (Appendix 4) or web address if appropriate (not necessary if already provided e.g. under a Stage 2 connection): What is this? What do I put here?
Computer print out (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings: Where do I get this from? What do I put here?
Electricity meter(s) make and model: Which Meter? What do I put here?

Declaration - to be completed by Installer:
What do I put here? or do I just tick them?

Thx

Hi Worcester,

I have been running through the SSEG forms and have sent my findings over to one of our technical team to ensure I have answered your questions correctly, i should have something back to you by the weekend.

Keep the questions coming all and i hope you are finding this thread useful.

 

[matt25]

Hi, is there any chance you could share the answers with me please?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi All,

I hope the below helps, please let me know if you have any more questions.

SSEG Details:
Manufacturer and model type: Details of Inverter used on the installation

Serial number of SSEG: Serial number of inverter

Serial number / version numbers of software (where appropriate): in most cases you would put N/A unless you are using software to monitor the performance of the system

SSEG rating (A) and power factor (under normal running conditions): This is provided by the manufacturer and can be found in the operation and user manual e.g 1 26A power factor 1

Maximum peak short circuit current (A): In practice the correct application of the various short-circuit ratings needs to be fully understood by the circuit designer to avoid leaving a circuit or equipment with inadequate short-circuit protection.IEC60781 provides an application guide for calculation of short-circuit currents in lowvoltage radial systems.

Type of prime mover and fuel source: E.G Wind Power

Location of SSEG within the installation: Location Of Inverter

Location of multi pole isolator: Location of DC Isolation switch

Installer Details:
Accreditation/Qualification: Qualifications to complete the installation also MCS certificate number where applicable

Information to be Enclosed:
Final copy of circuit diagram: You would answer "Yes" and include a circuit diagram within you application you can get advice on this from Energy Saving Trust publication CE72

SSEG Test Report (Appendix 4) or web address if appropriate (not necessary if already provided e.g. under a Stage 2 connection): Answer "Yes" and included a copy of your test report within your application.

Computer print out (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings: Answer "Yes" and show protection equipment on system schematic.

Electricity meter(s) make and model: Details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated

Declaration - to be completed by Installer: you should answer all questions with a "yes" or "No" if no then this section should be investigated. all questions should be answered to the best of your knowledge.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Quick question on the above. The DNO 'should' have the details of their own meter serial number, typ and manufacturer. Surely this is the details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated, otherwise there is no registration ingo on this new meter that is generating at a higher p/KWh than the DNO meter.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Quick question on the above. The DNO 'should' have the details of their own meter serial number, typ and manufacturer. Surely this is the details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated, otherwise there is no registration ingo on this new meter that is generating at a higher p/KWh than the DNO meter.

Hi Graeme, you are correct, I was working on a number of documents yesterday and this must of slipped through the net, i have made the alterations on the document to prevent further confusion.

Thank you for taking the time to read over it.

 

[gr7]

Location of multi pole isolator: Location of DC Isolation switch

Should this be the AC Isolator location?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Should this be the AC Isolator location?

I am under the impression that this is the DC isolator, but the DTI Guide does not give i definative answer. Any thoughts on this anyone?

 

[matt25]

Hi, what should my SSEG test report consist of?
many thanks,
Matt

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi, what should my SSEG test report consist of?
many thanks,
Matt

Hi Matt25,

I have an example of a SSEG Test Report please advise if this helps. see link below.

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xbcr...IG_Plus_70_2__TR10072__EN_156139_snapshot.pdf

 

[matt25]

Hi, yes it does help thankyou. Could this also be refered to a pre test certificate from the inverter supplier?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

From my understanding this must be specific to each job as their is a potential for the power rating to differ, but if anybody has any thoughts on this please comment!

 

[matt25]

Is it a document from the inverter supplier?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

I dont thinks its from the inverter people i think its a document you complete on site along side your commissioning report.

 

[matt25]

im not sure, can anyone else help please?!

 

[Graeme Harrold]

With regards to the Isolation, I would put the main AC plus locations of the DC Isolators too. As its for the DNO, they will want to know how to disconnect, and the main AC will do this. Not only is this the export route, but its the AC supply for the inverter and without it it will shut down.

SSEG test report is the commissioning documents you complete for each and every install. In effect its your decleration the install is operational and functioning correctly.

 

[Simonsaid]

Might be me being stupid but where do you post them to?

 

[Worcester]

@Simonsaid,

That's a scary question, are you MCS registered?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Might be me being stupid but where do you post them to?

This form will be sent to the DNO for the area that the installation has been completed in?

 

[Simonsaid]

We are MCS registered, all documents on our first job where filled out correctly but was not certain as to where the commissioning docs were to be sent.
We produced the MCS cert off the website but still need to send docs to DNO. Thanks for your help.

 

[savthespark]

Hi

OLCI are offering a solar PV course, would this be approved by the MCS?

Thanks

Sav

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi

OLCI are offering a solar PV course, would this be approved by the MCS?

Thanks

Sav

If you can find out who the course is certified by i.e Logic , Bpec or C&G then i will be able to check.

 

[Alana Fox]

Hi, Alana here from OLCI Construction Training.

Our Solar Photovoltaic Course will provide those who successfully complete it with access to MCS registration. Once the course is successfully completed, OLCI is able to guide you through the MCS registration with a relevant organisation such as NICEIC, who we are partnered with.

If you have any further queries please give us a call on 0800 316 8100. Alternatively you can email me at [email protected] with your name, phone number and a suitable time to call you back.

Best wishes, Alana Fox

 

[johnthesparky]

hello, I'm just in the process of doing my solar PV course at the minute,

I work for a builder who is putting me through the pv, they are already MCS accredited for heat pumps, solar therrmal and bio mass... but want to add solar pv

as I am their subby, and I am the only one with part p etc, I have just done the health and safety course and have the NICEIC PV course next week,

but was wondering how it works, I assume the builder just gets another technology added to their accreditation, and that relys on me working for them, so will I be MCS inspected and then they get inspected, or do we all meet up together?

thanks

John

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

hello, I'm just in the process of doing my solar PV course at the minute,

I work for a builder who is putting me through the pv, they are already MCS accredited for heat pumps, solar therrmal and bio mass... but want to add solar pv

as I am their subby, and I am the only one with part p etc, I have just done the health and safety course and have the NICEIC PV course next week,

but was wondering how it works, I assume the builder just gets another technology added to their accreditation, and that relys on me working for them, so will I be MCS inspected and then they get inspected, or do we all meet up together?

thanks

John

Hi John,

It sounds like the Builder will be going for a scope extension for PV, and within this extension you will be nominated as the quality supervisor for this technology (resulting in you ensuring all technical aspects are covered i.e calculations and specifications). You will then sign off all works under your computant person scheme.

You will be required to attend the inspection as you will be asked questions on the installation.

I hope this helps, have you considered gaining MCS yourself?

 

[johnthesparky]

thank you,

yeah it is something that has rattled around in my little brain, but I'd still need a builder/roofer to do the other side for me.... and I could potentially end up doing solar all the time if I'm not careful (and I love being self employed for the diversity) so I thought I'd go with the flow and then see what happens in the future....

the builder has about 70 properties that they would like to put PV on before the next cutoff, (which should get me up to speed ) and already has 2 customers waiting for the accreditation to get solar,

spoke to a few guys in the office today.. they are really buzzing about getting this sorted, and one said I'd have to make sure I charged enough, so it may be that it's as easy to stick it out together anyway as we have a really good working relationship

 

[VMan]

Hi Easy MCS, I got through the QMS from you guys,its very easy to follow thanks.
but maybe you or other on here can point me in the right direction as to what the Assessor will be requiring in terms of system design?
Will they require Cabel Calcs for cable sizing, or will the schematic diagram be sufficient? and will we need to leave scaffold up for them to take a look at the modules mounted on the roof or can he do that from a ladder??

cheers

V

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Easy MCS, I got through the QMS from you guys,its very easy to follow thanks.
but maybe you or other on here can point me in the right direction as to what the Assessor will be requiring in terms of system design?
Will they require Cabel Calcs for cable sizing, or will the schematic diagram be sufficient? and will we need to leave scaffold up for them to take a look at the modules mounted on the roof or can he do that from a ladder??

cheers

V

Hi VMAN,

As part of the Easy MCS service you have full access to our trained MCS mentors who will be more than happy to help you with this and any aspect of your MCS accreditation process. If you please call the office at your earliest convinience and we will assign you a mentor.

0844 4146041

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[solartecpv]

I've just used the Easy MCS QMS to set up our paperwork system for MCS accreditation with NAPIT. I found it really straight foreward to use as I'd been running iso9001 for a previous company. It took me about a week to tailor it to our company, spending about 2-3hrs a day on it.
We had our inspection a couple of weeks ago and only picked up a couple of minor non-Conformities and one that has proved to be a royal PITA! First we were asked for a procedure for roof inspection and suitability whick Easy MCS duly sent me. I sent this off and it still didn't suffice. Long story short, we have now had to take on board a self employed surveyor to inspect all our roofs prior to install.

Anyone else had any problems with roof surveys?

 

[Worcester]

ILong story short, we have now had to take on board a self employed surveyor to inspect all our roofs prior to install.

TBH, I'm glad to hear it, - this will casue MAJOR problems for the cheap end boys, the national sales led companies and even the likes of British Gas and Tesco

WRT roof surveys, it has just tightened up see the thread: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...energy-forum/36062-nic-mcs-pv-installers.html

Choosing NAPIT has probably just saved you a right royal headache!

You wouldn't want a roofer install electrics, you can't expect an electrican to do a roof survey.

 

[solartecpv]

TBH, I'm glad to hear it, - this will casue MAJOR problems for the cheap end boys, the national sales led companies and even the likes of British Gas and Tesco

WRT roof surveys, it has just tightened up see the thread: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...energy-forum/36062-nic-mcs-pv-installers.html


Choosing NAPIT has probably just saved you a right royal headache!

You wouldn't want a roofer install electrics, you can't expect an electrican to do a roof survey.

Agree 100% with you worcester, its just that the regs are so vague. They state that a structural engineer need only be consulted if there is any doubt. Unless you are actually qualified to survey a roof there will Always be doubt.
My biggest problem was finding someone willing to carry out the surveys.

 

[Worcester]

I'm also a chartered civil and structural engineer, so it was never a problem for us, however as it happened I got an email shot from a company offering to do them just this morning!

Solar Panel Installation | Structural Calculations & Regulations For Solar Panels | Structural Reports Online I haven't tested or tried them so I can't endorse them, seems like they are on the ball though. Price is about right, and what the market can easily stand.

 

[loony]

HI Graeme. In answer to your question as pasted below:

"Quick question on the above. The DNO 'should' have the details of their own meter serial number, typ and manufacturer. Surely this is the details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated, otherwise there is no registration ingo on this new meter that is generating at a higher p/KWh than the DNO meter."


The FIT is calculated from the meter that is newly installed by the PV installers. It displays all energy in kWh that is generated by the PV system whether it is used by the owner or fed back into the grid. So the details you include on your G83 form are those from this newly installed meter and not the existing one. The customer is paid about 43p for kWh measured by the newly installed meter. The extra 3 pence or so that the consumer receives for feeding back into the grid (on top of the 43p or so they have already been paid for producing it) is usually an estimate based on the power rating of the PV system. Most DNO/suppliers that I have heard about make an estimate rather than having an export meter to actually measure how much energy is actually fed back into the mains.​

 

[Dusty]

Hi All,
On an PV installation whereby the dc feed is taken inside the house to a junction box and then down through the house and taken out of a further junction box at the lower end to the inverter. Is this within the MCS guidelines for suitable equipment ? rather than using straight 4mm or 6mm core cable directly to the inverter.

Dusty

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Best bet is to start a new thread, and give a little more detail on the installation. You kind of posted your question in the wrong place.

 

[papa-golf]

Hi Easy MSC,

What are the costs to go through the MCS process with your company?
What time period is involved?

We are a very experienced company and have good HSE policies and procedures in place. We are wanting to gain our own MCS approval.

Regards


Papa-Golf

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Why dont you just write the manual youself, seems like you are most of the way there already. Took me a weeks worth of evenings to finalise mine, got through without any dramas, and now have a document I control that fits my business exactly, not to mention a healthier bank account.....

 

[cbw]

Hi easy MCS,

Are you offering a discount to forum members?

I would like to go ahead with a company within the next few days and would prefer a forum sponser.

I will be making payment to the chosen company this Tuesday so a speedy reply would be appreciated.

Thankyou,

James

 

[1billy wiz]

hi there easy mcs,

im a subby & working for a company at present installing solar pv. is it hard for a sole trader to gain mcs as i may have to possibly sub out between jobs & hopefully do my own jobs.

what do i need to get in order to prevent a million conformities??

i did the nic eic course for pv which was poor imo. anyhow i think it's pretty straight forward & any approved spark can do it after one install & being taken through the commisioning.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

The manual is easy to write, take the assessment guide from your chosen awarding body, combine witht he relevant MCS document and go through step by step answering the question "How would I do that" and write it down. Most comapnies are taking a "Cut and Paste" document and shoe horn your company into it (in some cases very badly). I saw 1 document for a mid sized roofing company, they paid just short of £5K and it was shocking. There were references to other companies, spelling mistakes, paragraph numbering errors, flow charts that did not make sense, errors in forms etc.

In most cases you will be spending in the region of £1K. take a week out and do it yourself, yes you are not earning, but then again you aint spending!!. You then have a document that is yours, you know it inside out, and most of all it fits your company.

Id be very tempted to put money on the fact, that Every supplied MSC manual will state you will have to set up a quarantine area!!!!

 

[cbw]

Well,

So far so good!

Discount for being a forum member and very good service and aproachable, helpful people.

Will keep you all updated on how it goes!

Thanks Easy MCS!

 

[LOTH001]

Hi All,

I hope the below helps, please let me know if you have any more questions.

SSEG Details:
Manufacturer and model type: Details of Inverter used on the installation

Serial number of SSEG: Serial number of inverter

Serial number / version numbers of software (where appropriate): in most cases you would put N/A unless you are using software to monitor the performance of the system

SSEG rating (A) and power factor (under normal running conditions): This is provided by the manufacturer and can be found in the operation and user manual e.g 1 26A power factor 1

Maximum peak short circuit current (A): In practice the correct application of the various short-circuit ratings needs to be fully understood by the circuit designer to avoid leaving a circuit or equipment with inadequate short-circuit protection.IEC60781 provides an application guide for calculation of short-circuit currents in lowvoltage radial systems.

Type of prime mover and fuel source: E.G Wind Power

Location of SSEG within the installation: Location Of Inverter

Location of multi pole isolator: Location of DC Isolation switch

Installer Details:
Accreditation/Qualification: Qualifications to complete the installation also MCS certificate number where applicable

Information to be Enclosed:
Final copy of circuit diagram: You would answer "Yes" and include a circuit diagram within you application you can get advice on this from Energy Saving Trust publication CE72

SSEG Test Report (Appendix 4) or web address if appropriate (not necessary if already provided e.g. under a Stage 2 connection): Answer "Yes" and included a copy of your test report within your application.

Computer print out (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings: Answer "Yes" and show protection equipment on system schematic.

Electricity meter(s) make and model: Details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated

Declaration - to be completed by Installer: you should answer all questions with a "yes" or "No" if no then this section should be investigated. all questions should be answered to the best of your knowledge.

This is a really helpful answer, understand most of form requirements now, 2 Q's SSEG test report, is this the DC test results? Protective device is this the spec of the RCD?

Many thanks again

 

[LOTH001]

Hi All,

I hope the below helps, please let me know if you have any more questions.

SSEG Details:
Manufacturer and model type: Details of Inverter used on the installation

Serial number of SSEG: Serial number of inverter

Serial number / version numbers of software (where appropriate): in most cases you would put N/A unless you are using software to monitor the performance of the system

SSEG rating (A) and power factor (under normal running conditions): This is provided by the manufacturer and can be found in the operation and user manual e.g 1 26A power factor 1

Maximum peak short circuit current (A): In practice the correct application of the various short-circuit ratings needs to be fully understood by the circuit designer to avoid leaving a circuit or equipment with inadequate short-circuit protection.IEC60781 provides an application guide for calculation of short-circuit currents in lowvoltage radial systems.

Type of prime mover and fuel source: E.G Wind Power

Location of SSEG within the installation: Location Of Inverter

Location of multi pole isolator: Location of DC Isolation switch

Installer Details:
Accreditation/Qualification: Qualifications to complete the installation also MCS certificate number where applicable

Information to be Enclosed:
Final copy of circuit diagram: You would answer "Yes" and include a circuit diagram within you application you can get advice on this from Energy Saving Trust publication CE72

SSEG Test Report (Appendix 4) or web address if appropriate (not necessary if already provided e.g. under a Stage 2 connection): Answer "Yes" and included a copy of your test report within your application.

Computer print out (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings: Answer "Yes" and show protection equipment on system schematic.

Electricity meter(s) make and model: Details of the newly fitted generation meter on which the FIT will be calculated

Declaration - to be completed by Installer: you should answer all questions with a "yes" or "No" if no then this section should be investigated. all questions should be answered to the best of your knowledge.

All now clear with one exception Max Peak Short Curcuit Current? can anyone explain how to calculate, is it not 16A if circuit protected by 16A MCB?

 

[Worcester]

N/A inverter based.

Most people forget that this form is used for all G83 connections of all types of generator...

 

[LOTH001]

N/A inverter based.

Most people forget that this form is used for all G83 connections of all types of generator...

Yes did realise generic form so for a PV install the box is entered n/a is if I understand correctly?

Regards