Moving Consumer unit

[AdieB]

I have to move a Consumer unit approximately 6 mts. Had suggestion buy NAPIT technical to fit enclosure with terminal rail and terminals and then extend cables to new consumer unit. As the enclosure will not be readily available the terminal method would not be Maintenance Free. (If there was a problem in the future access to the enclosure could be achieved but would make a mess of decoration) Is there a Maintenance Free enclosure that will take multiple cables on the market? Or is it multiple J803 and the like. Anyone done something similar?



AdieB

 

[Pete999]

Metal enclosure, DIN rail Wago connectors, or DIN connectors

 

[Pete999]

You have all the Qualifications needed the Adie what are they exactly?

 

[Midwest]

Don't think I would install such an installation in this case. I think this enclosure should always be accessible. IMO

 

[SparkyChick]

I had to extend an installation replacing a consumer unit last week. Not quite that long, but I used Wagoboxes, installed in maintenance free mode (i.e. with required de-rating and ensuring maximum aggregate current was not breached as I used one box for a couple of circuits) in an accessible location (in the ceiling void above the CU) and documented it on the EIC for the work.

And I concur with Midwest... if it's got screws in it, it should be accessible.

 

[Midwest]

Even with Wago cage clamp connectors (there're other manufacturers), the enclosure should be accessible IMO. If this is not achievable, look at other methods as SparkyChick suggested, or partial rewire of feeds to RFC, Radials etc.

Anyhow, my soufflés are in the oven, and I'm just have 5 mins before I need to prepare my Béarnaise sauce for my Chateaubriand. We having fried Mars Bar for pud.

 

[Octopus]

The OP doesn't make sense.....

 

[Pete999]

I have to move a Consumer unit approximately 6 mts. Had suggestion buy NAPIT technical to fit enclosure with terminal rail and terminals and then extend cables to new consumer unit. As the enclosure will not be readily available the terminal method would not be Maintenance Free. (If there was a problem in the future access to the enclosure could be achieved but would make a mess of decoration) Is there a Maintenance Free enclosure that will take multiple cables on the market? Or is it multiple J803 and the like. Anyone done something similar?



AdieB

Where do you intend to fit the extension box?

 

[Octopus]

I have to move a Consumer unit approximately 6 mts. Had suggestion buy NAPIT technical to fit enclosure with terminal rail and terminals and then extend cables to new consumer unit. As the enclosure will not be readily available the terminal method would not be Maintenance Free. (If there was a problem in the future access to the enclosure could be achieved but would make a mess of decoration) Is there a Maintenance Free enclosure that will take multiple cables on the market? Or is it multiple J803 and the like. Anyone done something similar?



AdieB

Hum.......

 

[Rpa07]

Metal enclosure, DIN rail Wago connectors, or DIN connectors

If you absolutely have to have it non accessible due to decoration and all, I would go with Pete's idea as Wago on a DIN rail will be maintenance free and the non combustible enclosure will take care of the other regulation requirement. Just make top job of it and document it well with photo on EIC.

 

[The Ghost]

Is the supply cut-out moving with it or are you planning on tails over 6m long?

 

[Midwest]

Asked my Scheme recently, their opinion on such an enclosure as to whether it would be classified as 'similar switchgear', as described in reg 421.1.201.

''This will be the decision of the designer but it would suggest based on our guidance in this situation the enclosures and connections do not fall under 'similar switchgear''.

 

[Pete999]

Asked my Scheme recently, their opinion on such an enclosure as to whether it would be classified as 'similar switchgear', as described in reg 421.1.201.

''This will be the decision of the designer but it would suggest based on our guidance in this situation the enclosures and connections do not fall under 'similar switchgear''.

Good bit of buck passing by your Scheme there Middy

 

[Midwest]

In this case Pete, they actually committed to an answer, which was rather refreshing Fantastic Plastic.

 

[AdieB]

You have all the Qualifications needed the Adie what are they exactly?

I am of the older generation. I have A B & C and 17th Edition City and Guilds I also have the inspection and Test certificate and have been in the electrical industry since 1973 when I did my indentured apprenticeship. I am a also registered with NAPIT.

 

[AdieB]

Where do you intend to fit the extension box?

The extension box is in place of the old consumer unit. the cables will then extend to the new consumer unit location

 

[AdieB]

The meter has already been moved and new tails installed . In the meter box due to the length of the tails an 100A isolation switch has been fitted.

 

[SparkyChick]

The meter has already been moved and new tails installed . In the meter box due to the length of the tails an 100A isolation switch has been fitted.

Is that a switch fuse with a 100A fuse or just an isolator rated at 100A? If the tails are over 3m it will need to be a switch fuse.

 

[SparkyChick]

The other option which nobody has mentioned so far is soldered or crimped joints with a liberal application of suitably rated heat shrink sleeving. Just a thought.

 

[Pete999]

The extension box is in place of the old consumer unit. the cables will then extend to the new consumer unit location

In that case the connections would be accessible wouldn't they? ergo no need for MF connectors.

 

[Des 56]

The other option which nobody has mentioned so far is soldered or crimped joints with a liberal application of suitably rated heat shrink sleeving. Just a thought.

located in a suitable enclosure
Just finishing the sentence

 

[SparkyChick]

Would I be right in my thinking that the enclosure I've missed is to provide the required strain relief for the joint?

 

[Midwest]

Nope its just a box to put something in

 

[Taylortwocities]

Would I be right in my thinking that the enclosure I've missed is to provide the required strain relief for the joint?

Strain relief not needed if the cables are properly clipped/cleated.

 

[Des 56]

Would I be right in my thinking that the enclosure I've missed is to provide the required strain relief for the joint?

Midwest has given you the answer, all that is left to say is an answer needs to be backed up by the regulations and here it is 526.5

 

[SparkyChick]

Thanks guys, in the words of everyones favourite meerkat... Simples!

I was over thinking it when you mentioned the enclosure @Des 56

Soldered joints, whilst they are very familiar to me as a result of my experience building public facing cash handling/ticketing machines and other electronic gizmos, they are my last resort for this sort of thing. I've only had to use one thus far where some plumb had left about 1.5" of cable sticking out the wall for an outside light with no slack and that ended up enclosed by the replacement light.

When I wrote my original comment about the heatshrink I nearly edited it to state the shrink should be adhesive lined to provide some strain relief for the joint hence my question, and I committed what turns out so often to be the cardinal sin... I assumed... in this case that the cables would be in a ceiling void or chased into a wall. And on that note, would the ceiling void constitute a suitable enclosure under 526.5 Item iii, providing the the plasterboard is BS 476-4 compliant?

 

[Des 56]

And on that note, would the ceiling void constitute a suitable enclosure under 526.5 Item iii

Not being a legal eagle,its never easy to put a definitive interpretation of the regulations that is agreed by all

With the ceiling void,my own belief is "no it is not an enclosure" in the electrical connection sense,but it is an enclosure perhaps in the fire safety world

My reason for not considering the ceiling an enclosure is that someone can access the void with no intention or expectation of it containing unprotected cables,an example being the connector blocks and tape used for fancy light fittings
With that I rest my case your honour

 

[Wilko]

Agree. For me it's not an electrical enclosure if it doesn't look like an enclosure ( e.g. roof space) and or you can access it without a tool (e.g. plastic food container ... yep seen takeaway food box repurposed once, well it was near the kitchen to be fair ).

 

[SparkyChick]

Not being a legal eagle,its never easy to put a definitive interpretation of the regulations that is agreed by all

That is so true.

My reason for not considering the ceiling an enclosure is that someone can access the void with no intention or expectation of it containing unprotected cables,an example being the connector blocks and tape used for fancy light fittings
With that I rest my case your honour

And there I guess is the issue in this particular example... what constitutes unprotected? I would have said, soldered joint, with adhesive lined shrink over individual cores and then an overall adhesive shrink encasing the basic insulation and inner shrink, extending by say 0.5" over the outer sheath would constitute 'protected'.

As for the terminal blocks wrapped in PVC for fancy lights... I totally agree, not enclosed. The best (or worst, depending on which way you look at it) example I've encountered was actually at home, where some plum had installed an electric shower by stripping the insulation off the cooker feed and had simply wrapped the shower cable around the cores with a liberal application of tape. I had no clue it was there and was feeling around in the floor space trying to locate the junction box, because it never crossed my mind that anyone would have been so stupid... didn't get me, but taught me a valuable lesson none the less. Always look before you feel

 

[Wilko]

My 20p on heat shrink is it's a good start, but it's not same standard as the original cable so needs additional containment / protection. Just my opinion

 

[Des 56]

That is so true.



And there I guess is the issue in this particular example... what constitutes unprotected? I would have said, soldered joint, with adhesive lined shrink over individual cores and then an overall adhesive shrink encasing the basic insulation and inner shrink, extending by say 0.5" over the outer sheath would constitute 'protected'.

Yes,to me the above example would give the impression of being well insulated, but here is the however

It seems that a cable that has had the insulation removed,the new insulation should provide at least the the same degree of protection as the original,can we guarantee that is so with our own efforts

Always look before you feel
My wife tells me that

 

[SparkyChick]

My 20p on heat shrink is it's a good start, but it's not same standard as the original cable so needs additional containment / protection. Just my opinion

Yes,to me the above example would give the impression of being well insulated, but here is the however

It seems that a cable that has had the insulation removed,the new insulation should provide at least the the same degree of protection as the original,can we guarantee that is so with our own efforts

Nicely explained guys and thanks for entertaining my questioning Much appreciated.