New standalone ceramic hob oven keeps tripping rcd

[hackerwacker]

Hello,

I have a brand new Indesit standalone ceramic hob oven installed with own mcb and new wiring (surface trunking) and cooker switch and socket both neons. The ccu is part rcd protected. The mcb is not on the rcd side. When power is applied to the cooker, the time flashes 0.00 and then I set the time. When any of the hobs are switched on, the rcd trips. Switching off the hob, the time is reset to 0.00. Tried resetting the time 2-3 times but when any of hobs switched on, rcd trips again.
Checked the voltage to the cooker switch =240v. With the cooker disconnected, v=240 on the load side (cable unplugged) indicating the neon is also not causing problem. With the cooker plugged in, the load side shows the voltage has dropped to half.

Called indesit and they sent an engineer (who said his son was part P, can't remember whether he was part p or not or even qualified electrical). He immediately blamed my wiring as a short circuit. I mentioned that if there was a short, the mcb will not come on even without the appliance connected, as it was possible to switch on the mcb. He did the testing on this meter, when circuit not on and insulation resistance was 999, When the appliance is connected its less than 1. On his notes he mentioned it was meant to be more than 3 minimum. (the minimum is 1M, but I didn't tell him). He then blamed mcd and cooker switch (both changed and it still the same problem. He also said the appliance will work off a 13A plug (the manual recommends a minimum of 32A). :cuss:I think Indesit needs to vet and train their engineers!!!!! and tell them to read the manual before attempting to service their appliances.

Its a hager board with neutral bar coming out of the rcd for all circuits, rcd and non rcd. Can this be the problem? Rcd will only trips if there was earth leak, True?

Any help appreciated?
Thanks

 

[jeffelectric]

mcb is overload not shortcircuit device, get a proper electrician in . the cooker with a correct mcb hould be on the correct rcd, the one you have may be faulty

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

what do you mean "not a short circuit device"?

mcb is overload not shortcircuit device, get a proper electrician in . the cooker with a correct mcb hould be on the correct rcd, the one you have may be faulty

 

[DPG]

mcb is overload not shortcircuit device, get a proper electrician in . the cooker with a correct mcb hould be on the correct rcd, the one you have may be faulty

Should the cooker be on the rcd side? The wiring is surface mounted. Just a thought. Daz

 

[jeffelectric]

will detect a short between live and earth which causes a big overload, was typing too fast

 

[DNS1]

He did IR with the hob connected?! Unless he interlinked the line and neutral of course he's going to get odd results, and if he DID link out he was never going to find a line to neutral fault anyway...

 

[Engineer54]

Hello,

I have a brand new Indesit standalone ceramic hob oven installed with own mcb and new wiring (surface trunking) and cooker switch and socket both neons. The ccu is part rcd protected. The mcb is not on the rcd side. When power is applied to the cooker, the time flashes 0.00 and then I set the time. When any of the hobs are switched on, the rcd trips. Switching off the hob, the time is reset to 0.00. Tried resetting the time 2-3 times but when any of hobs switched on, rcd trips again.
Checked the voltage to the cooker switch =240v. With the cooker disconnected, v=240 on the load side (cable unplugged) indicating the neon is also not causing problem. With the cooker plugged in, the load side shows the voltage has dropped to half.

Called indesit and they sent an engineer (who said his son was part P, can't remember whether he was part p or not or even qualified electrical). He immediately blamed my wiring as a short circuit. I mentioned that if there was a short, the mcb will not come on even without the appliance connected, as it was possible to switch on the mcb. He did the testing on this meter, when circuit not on and insulation resistance was 999, When the appliance is connected its less than 1. On his notes he mentioned it was meant to be more than 3 minimum. (the minimum is 1M, but I didn't tell him). He then blamed mcd and cooker switch (both changed and it still the same problem. He also said the appliance will work off a 13A plug (the manual recommends a minimum of 32A). :cuss:I think Indesit needs to vet and train their engineers!!!!! and tell them to read the manual before attempting to service their appliances.

Its a hager board with neutral bar coming out of the rcd for all circuits, rcd and non rcd. Can this be the problem? Rcd will only trips if there was earth leak, True?

Any help appreciated?
Thanks

So is the hob going to be replaced under the warranty??

The 3 Meg he was talking about, is probably that stated by the manufacturer for this hob appliance. The 1 meg your talking about is for building wiring....

 

[telectrix]

Neutral in wrong bar in CU. 99%.


Its a hager board with neutral bar coming out of the rcd for all circuits, rcd and non rcd.

or incorrectly set up CU. you can't have the N coming out of the rCD and the L not.

 

[hackerwacker]

'jeffelectric 'mcb is overload not shortcircuit device, get a proper electrician in . the cooker with a correct mcb hould be on the correct rcd, the one you have may be faulty'
Read the post correctly. I did mention both the mcb and the cooker switch were changed. They might also be faulty. very unlikely.
What do you mean 'the cooker with a correct mcb hould be on the correct rcd'? Its got its own mcb. rcd is shared across with other circuits or did you expect rcd for individual circuits. Its not rcbo. I hope you know the difference???
You go straight for mcb not an overload device hoping no one might notice and not reply back, then you change your story once you have been noticed, blaming on fast typing. think you need to leave electrics well alone if you do not understand the principles. And don't bother giving advice either!!!! Unlike you I knew what I am doing and typing.

'telectrix 'or incorrectly set up CU. you can't have the N coming out of the rCD and the L not.' They are both coming out of the rcd 2 ingoing 2 outgoing. Its split board. some rcd protected and some not protected But there in only neutral bar which is serves all circuits whether rcd or not.

'Engineer54' So is the hob going to be replaced under the warranty??

The 3 Meg he was talking about, is probably that stated by the manufacturer for this hob appliance. The 1 meg your talking about is for building wiring....'
No mention of returning it or changing it. As mentioned in the post he blames wiring, then the mcb or the switch.
There is no mention in the manual about the 3 meg but he did not mention this either.
It can be changed to rcd side. But I need to sort out this first. I do not want rcd tripping when connected to the rcd circuits.

 

[DPG]

What a rude reply. If you know what you are doing then good luck to you, as you obviously don't need any more help. Daz.

 

[BlueToBits]

If the MCB supplying the hob is not on the RCD side of the board then the RCD should not trip in any event of a fault with the hob or hob wiring. As telectrix says, there can only be something wrong with the consumer unit arrangement. You will need to have it checked by a pro.

 

[Rampantchilli]

'telectrix 'or incorrectly set up CU. you can't have the N coming out of the rCD and the L not.' They are both coming out of the rcd 2 ingoing 2 outgoing. Its split board. some rcd protected and some not protected But there in only neutral bar which is serves all circuits whether rcd or not.

.

From what I read, this is your answer.
you say your MCB is NOT on the Rcd, but your neutral is. So you will be causing an imbalance across the Rcd, put the mcb onto the Rcd protected side of the CU, that should sort things as both neutral and live will be from the RCD protected side of the board.

may be with your next reply you could include a picture of your board with the cover off

 

[telectrix]

But there in only neutral bar which is serves all circuits whether rcd or not.


you can't have RCD protected circuits and non -RCD protected circuits using the same neutral bar. end of. is this clear enough?

​

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

As Telectrix says, Neutral problem. On the Hager Board there are three 'bars' at the top, maybe all the Neutrals have been put in the centre earth 'bar'; and the earths into the two neutral 'bars'?

Regards.

 

[telectrix]

just occured to me. some boards come with 2 N bars linked together. is this the case and that the link needs removing?

a photo of the CU ( cover off ) would show.

 

[linfield-sparky]

Netreul in wrong bar,is it a split load CU?

 

[Rampantchilli]

Netreul in wrong bar,is it a split load CU?

just occured to me. some boards come with 2 N bars linked together. is this the case and that the link needs removing?

a photo of the CU ( cover off ) would show.

trouble is this board isnt new is it, so he is already running circuits with his current set up, as i said and telectrix said, PHOTO

 

[richy3333]

But there in only neutral bar which is serves all circuits whether rcd or not.


you can't have RCD protected circuits and non -RCD protected circuits using the same neutral bar. end of. is this clear enough?

​

Not really, any chance of typing it in bigger font

 

[stuylangford]

Wrong neutral bar connected to ....

 

[Heisenberg]

Surely if all circuit neutrals are sharing the same bar in the CU, including the ones supposedly protected by the RCD, wouldn't he have had nuisance tripping before now?

 

[Engineer54]

There is no mention in the manual about the 3 meg but he did not mention this either.


​

It won't be stated in the operators manual, only in the service manual, the service company holds for this appliance!!

 

[Knobhead]

Any chance of a picture of this board? I’m in need of cheering up.

 

[telectrix]

ah! mr. grumpy has woke.

 

[BlueToBits]

Assuming the OP is correct and there is only one neutral serving both protected and unprotected ways: I think the most likely scenario is that the person who installed or 'upgraded' the board tried to convert a non-split '15th' edition board into a '16th' split load board without buying a neutral bar conversion kit.

 

[hackerwacker]

Well if speaking out to correct 'for providing wrong advice', is not the right thing, well I don't have words to describe much more. It usually nice to read the full post as many have done and then post appropriately like BlueToBits, and others from the posts:hurray:.
As richy3333 says, typing in bigger font is not going to change the board layout. It is what is it. Many newbie do not understand the previous layouts, are there newbies with not much knowledge. BlueToBits looks like he been 'sparking' for years and knows different scenarios.
As mentioned in the posts, I have to get a pic but the fact remains. There is 1 neutral bar coming out of the rcd on the left hand side where all the neutrals are connected, whether rcd or not protected, 1 earth bar at the top, where all the live go? (get the buzzing with responses).
there has not been any nuisance tripping before either. I never mentioned it was a new board.
The minimum 3m is in the service manual, why tell me, the wiring produces 999 as engineer already tested.

 

[telectrix]

a photo is essential here. from your RCD you will have a L busbar on one side feeding the MCBs, and on the other side will be a black or blue cable going to N bar. if it's a split board, there will be 2 N bars. check where the neutrals from the other MCBs on the non RCD side go.

 

[Engineer54]

The minimum 3m is in the service manual, why tell me, the wiring produces 999 as engineer already tested

No idea!! you mentioned 3 meg, not me!! You say that the hob tested out under 1 meg, with just the appliance and interconnecting cable/flex, and 999 Meg on your installation wiring. So either the interconnecting cable you installed to the appliance is at fault, or your new hob appliance, (taking it, that it was tested from the Cooker control unit.)

What others have stated about RCD wiring configurations are correct, and i'm surprised this CU installation hasn't been giving nuisance tripping. To be honest with you, this whole situation is simple to get to the bottom of, in less than an hour.

​

 

[telectrix]

can't see you getting here from china in under an hour E54. :grinningelf:

 

[Engineer54]

can't see you getting here from china in under an hour E54. :grinningelf:

In ''Sunny'' Cyprus at the moment!! lol!!

Even so, we'd still be talking around 4 hours, but i think i'll pass on this one!! lol!!

 

[timo1]

The OP sounds like he doesn't need anyone's help judging by his responses....

The way I would rule in or out the hob would to be to disconnect the hob completely. I would then connect a temp socket from the load part of the cooker switch and plug in something that demands power like a kettle. If it still trips wiring problem, if not hob problem. I agree completely that it is a neutral in the wrong bar, but if it is I guess we will never know!

 

[hackerwacker]

Sorted:sweatdrop:.
Thanks for all that said needs 2 neutral bars. Added another and is jumping with joy:aureola:

 

[derek preece]

Thanks for letting us know it was an incorrectly set out consumer unit. Perhaps an apology to those who you were rather abrupt with when they mentioned this in their posts might not go amiss