removal of main cutout fuse

[HandySparks]

Well as noted on another thread the pulling of the DNO fuse will become a mute discussion as of Jan, as if your wanting to abide by the BS 7671-2008, you can not pull a DNO fuse unless you have that DNO permission.

I seemed to have missed something. What thread is this, and what are the specific changes in Jan relating to pulling the DNO fuse, please?

 

[malcolmsanford]

Regulation 537.1.4 As been extended in the 1st amendment to include:

"Where the distributor provides a means of disconnection complying with chapter 53 at the origin of the installation and agrees that it may be used as the means of isolation for the part of the installation between the origin and the main linked switch or circuit breaker required by regulation 537.1.4, the requirement for isolation and switching of that part of the installation is satisfied.

Note A cut-out fuse may be withdrawn only by a person authorized to do so by the distributor."

So the regs are now advising us that we should not be pulling cut-out fuses unless we are authorized to do so.

 

[Knobhead]

Work safely? This is getting beyond a joke!

If the DNO’s fitted isolators to EVERY installation then so be it. But they are neglecting their care of duty to my eyes. “Every installation should have a safe means of isolation”.
I’ve had to work to those rules for the last 35 years, why in the name of god are they exempt!

Rant over! :83:

 

[Octopus]

Regulation 537.1.4 As been extended in the 1st amendment to include:

"Where the distributor provides a means of disconnection complying with chapter 53 at the origin of the installation and agrees that it may be used as the means of isolation for the part of the installation between the origin and the main linked switch or circuit breaker required by regulation 537.1.4, the requirement for isolation and switching of that part of the installation is satisfied.

Note A cut-out fuse may be withdrawn only by a person authorized to do so by the distributor."

So the regs are now advising us that we should not be pulling cut-out fuses unless we are authorized to do so.

So are all the distributors going to simplify their proceedures, educate their call centre staff and make the whole process easier for everyone? I doubt it.

Last time I needed a distributor it took me 6 calls and 1 hour of my time!

Rant over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

So are all the distributors going to simplify their proceedures, educate their call centre staff and make the whole process easier for everyone? I doubt it.

Last time I needed a distributor it took me 6 calls and 1 hour of my time!

Rant over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Educate their call centre staff??....When was the last time you spoke to an educated call centre member of staff.....lol........:dozey:

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve been lucky, only ever had to speak to a DNO once, the conversation went along the lines of:

• I need to speak to an engineer
• I can take an enquiry and pass it on to the correct department
• Do you know what you’re talking about?
• No I just pass messages on…..
• Let me speak to an engineer that will know what I’m talking about.
• I can put you through to our technical sales department
• OK I’ll give that a try
• Hello technical sales
• I explained the problem
• Nothing to do with us, but I know a man that can
• Hello systems engineering
• Thank god! I explain the problem again
• Eeerr can I call you back within 10 minutes
• We’ll be there in ½ an hour

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I’ve been lucky, only ever had to speak to a DNO once, the conversation went along the lines of:

• I need to speak to an engineer
• I can take an enquiry and pass it on to the correct department
• Do you know what you’re talking about?
• No I just pass messages on…..
• Let me speak to an engineer that will know what I’m talking about.
• I can put you through to our technical sales department
• OK I’ll give that a try
• Hello technical sales
• I explained the problem
• Nothing to do with us, but I know a man that can
• Hello systems engineering
• Thank god! I explain the problem again
• Eeerr can I call you back within 10 minutes
• We’ll be there in ½ an hour

So....in a roundabout kind of way Tony...you got there...in the end i suspect...lol........:cry_smile:

 

[sparkie710]

With everyone saying they pull it their self that’s fair enough for obvious reasons having to wait for the do which could equal lost money waiting around. But if you do please be careful make sure you wear correct ppe and look at the head before you do encase bitumen is present and you can’t get it back in. AND ALWAYS TEST!!! Can’t express it how important it is. I’m not going to lie I messed up didn’t test and couldn’t let go couldn’t scream because I had the tails in my had lucky I got yanked off and only got bruises. 100% stupidity but I never been so scared and everyone should always take great care one mishap and that’s it.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

With everyone saying they pull it their self that’s fair enough for obvious reasons having to wait for the do which could equal lost money waiting around. But if you do please be careful make sure you wear correct ppe and look at the head before you do encase bitumen is present and you can’t get it back in. AND ALWAYS TEST!!! Can’t express it how important it is. I’m not going to lie I messed up didn’t test and couldn’t let go couldn’t scream because I had the tails in my had lucky I got yanked off and only got bruises. 100% stupidity but I never been so scared and everyone should always take great care one mishap and that’s it.

Interesting point this.....should anyone pull a DNO fuse on there own?.....or should another competent person be present....just in case?....Should at least one of those be an emergency first aider?..........

 

[Knobhead]

This was a local works rule. Any electrician on an out of hours call out should be accompanied by a trained first aider if carrying out any MV switching operation.

I thought it a bit churlish to ask what happens if their both dead!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Work safely? This is getting beyond a joke!

If the DNO’s fitted isolators to EVERY installation then so be it. But they are neglecting their care of duty to my eyes. “Every installation should have a safe means of isolation”.
I’ve had to work to those rules for the last 35 years, why in the name of god are they exempt!

Rant over! :83:

I think what this is heading towards is the same system the SSE use in Scotland, where if your a member of SELECT you will be given that authorization to pull the fuse. I'm not sure how this works for them, but the system that was proposed a couple of years back, and not adopted in England/Wales was as a member of a scheme you would contact the DNO and they would issue you a set of 10 temporary seals, with associated paperwork, you would pull the fuse and after you finished you would seal it again, fill in the paperwork and send it to the DNO and they would do the rest.

I posted here a week or so back, that a DNO engineer I know said one reason the scheme was shelved was that the networks were concerned about the training that is now being done within our side of the industry and they felt that not all "electricians" were competent enough to pull their fuse. As I said then that might have just been him not being 100% right, but over the years he as not been wrong to often.

It now brings us back to if the regs are now identifying that you can only pull a fuse if your authorized to do so, where is this going.

1. Have they included it and it is just aimed at the project that is now being run by SSE and the SELECT association.
2. Does it now mean that this project is going to extend into other network providers?
3. If it is will it be ALL the schemes involved or perhaps just NICEIC and ECA
4. Will the DNO insist that entry to a scheme that is involved in this project, that an electrician will have to have training and take a short course? Which will obviously be more money for us.
5. Perhaps it is aimed at the roll over project of putting smart meters into homes?

Must mean something if the IET have included this new part to an existing regulation,

 

[mogga]

Will this mean perhaps a new CnG 2993784 4 day course costing £2000 ??
or should it be a 2day course at DNOs expence? or
should it be included within the assesment by napit Niceic ect?
If your doing your annual assesment would you have to prove contact with DNO ? IET Have opened a mine field and IMO they could be correct BUT How may guys will wait for autherisation? will do a course? will contact DNO? will still pull the fuse anyway as they always have ?
I suspect the PULL IT brigade will still pull it no matter what

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Unauthorised pulling of the DNO fuse is going to become more conspicuous post smart-meter installation because the meter technology will have a back-up supply and "phone home" with an alarm signal indicating supply interruption to the installation. The intention is that these alarm calls will be logged and investigated by DNO fraud and abstraction team.
It is vital that all interested parties support the ESC submission to the Department of Energy and Cimate Change for Smart meters to include integral isolating switches and unsealed outgoing terminals, similar to the current Siemens S2AS meters already in service in some areas. For further details follow the links below:
ESC Smart Meter Safety Challenge : Electrical Safety Council
http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/public/switched_on/Switched_On_Issue_22.pdf

 

[ezzzekiel]

which will mean more sparks working with live tails and more chances of incident

 

[malcolmsanford]

Unauthorised pulling of the DNO fuse is going to become more conspicuous post smart-meter installation because the meter technology will have a back-up supply and "phone home" with an alarm signal indicating supply interruption to the installation. The intention is that these alarm calls will be logged and investigated by DNO fraud and abstraction team.

That is a good point Mark, but who will the DNO go after, the house holder I assume, who will have paperwork that there was an Electrician doing work on the system on that day and it must have been him, so will it be the electrician they go after then?

If the house holder get's Joe from the pub or John Wayne in to do the work and there is no paper trail I assume the house holder will get the prosecution.

Will there actually be any prosecutions if the fuse was pulled unauthorized?

 

[FatBob]

Back in June I requested a fuse upgrade and isolator. Within 3 weeks out they came to fit isolator, but would not fit it until fuse was upgraded. Next turn out was also to fit isolator. Then at last to upgrade fuse. Then another visit to fit isolator, but they went to the wrong property. Its now mid September. I am still waiting for a call back to re arrange an isolator.

 

[mogga]

Im going to request isolator fitting on my house on monday see what happens

Just a wee aside the 3ph from street comes into my house then subs off to 2 neighbours properties Where would I stand if their main fuse blew while I was away on holiday and no access could be provided ? Im going to ask this on monday as well

 

[sharpener]

Im going to request isolator fitting on my house on monday see what happens

Just a wee aside the 3ph from street comes into my house then subs off to 2 neighbours properties Where would I stand if their main fuse blew while I was away on holiday and no access could be provided ? Im going to ask this on monday as well

Tell us what happened Mogga!

 

[sparkdog]

In the Nov issue of Spark it says SSE adds ELECSA contractors to its cut-out seals policy.Says you can quickly and easily de-energise by contacting SSE directly but does not say if you pull the fuse yourself or what.I might phone elecsa and see what they say.

 

[FatBob]

Back in June I requested a fuse upgrade and isolator. Within 3 weeks out they came to fit isolator, but would not fit it until fuse was upgraded. Next turn out was also to fit isolator. Then at last to upgrade fuse. Then another visit to fit isolator, but they went to the wrong property. Its now mid September. I am still waiting for a call back to re arrange an isolator.

To update this post, another date was arranged in October, but they could not guarantee how long the power would be off, as the isolation fit would be 2 visits, one to de-energise and one to fit the isolator. Two different people. As these are commercial premises, that was not acceptable. Eventually I was given a further date in November where the two works would be done at the same time. Still two people in two vans but they would arrive together!
I went back last week to complete the job and they obviously didn't arrive together... still no isolator.

In balance, I had an isolator in 24hrs at another job last week.