Ring main spurs and replacement of lighting fittings

[gavin.sibley]

Hello,

i am new to the electrical world and have been asked to add a few extra sockets in a house, and also fit a new exterior light where there is already and old and broken one. What are the regulations involved with doing this? its an old 16th edition fuse board with no RCD's just a main switch and MCB's, would i have to bring that up too 17th edition standard in order to carry out this work?

 

[Brightspark2]

What are your qualifications?...

Theres all sorts of regulations involved, its a big book...

Only your work needs to be up to current standards, you dont have to change the consumer unit, there are other ways of providing the required RCD protection...

Where are you located?...what about part p?...

 

[telectrix]

replacing the light. like for like, is not a problem. adding sockets, however will require testing and certification of the work. all boils down to: are you competent to do it?

 

[jimmymac]

Hello Gavin and welcome,

Should you really be doing this work if you are not familiar with the regulations?

I can understand that you are keen to learn but maybe you should wait until you are a little more experienced/competant before you take on a job of this size

 

[gavin.sibley]

hello both, thanks for your reply.

yes i have 17th edition aswell as part p and inspection and testing, but as they can only tell you so much in a training center and as im only just starting out im looking for friendly advice

I have been told that using sockets with built in RCD's would bring my part of the installation up to standard, i cant see how this works though as these would not be protecting the length of cable stuck in the wall, is this right?

 

[telectrix]

correct. you could get round it by fitting a RCD FCU to supply your extra sockets, a stand alone RCD adjacent to the CU, fed from the 30A RFC fuse, or a new 17th Ed. CU. those are your options. the first one means you are limited by the 13A BS1362 fuse, the second option is fiddly, the third option is cost. your choice ( or the customer's). then don't forget the earthing and bonding. are they up to scratch?

 

[Andy78]

You are correct. A RCD socket front would not protect any buried cables. Who told you this course of action would comply ?

 

[gavin.sibley]

correct. you could get round it by fitting a RCD FCU to supply your extra sockets, a stand alone RCD adjacent to the CU, fed from the 30A RFC fuse, or a new 17th Ed. CU. those are your options. the first one means you are limited by the 13A BS1362 fuse, the second option is fiddly, the third option is cost. your choice ( or the customer's). then don't forget the earthing and bonding. are they up to scratch?

thanks this is exactly what i wanted to hear! the RCD FCU is probably the best option as its the cheapest and easiest way

Could someone answer another quick question for me? i think i know the answer but i want too check

The customer wants me to do a simple swap out of some fittings (swap switches for new ones, light fittings for new ones, all like for like work) would this sort of job be something you would be required to bring that circuit up to 17th edition standard? I know obviously if there is no earths in lighting circuits etc then that is all required to be fixed, but if the circuit is in a generally good condition other than not being RCD protected, would it be up to me to do that although im only doing like for like swaps?

thanks,
gavin

 

[Andy78]

If you are swapping accessories like for like then this is classed as maintenance, not an alteration of the circuit.
Lack of a CPC in a lighting circuit does not need rectification. Just need to make sure all accessories are class 2, and circuits are identified at the consumer unit as having no CPC.

 

[Silly Sausage]

What an RCBO in the CU?
If he can source one to fit.

 

[itselectric]

If you are swapping accessories like for like then this is classed as maintenance, not an alteration of the circuit.
Lack of a CPC in a lighting circuit does not need rectification. Just need to make sure all accessories are class 2, and circuits are identified at the consumer unit as having no CPC.

I have one worry with this, and that is metal backboxes with metal lugs, especially in stud walls where if a cable is nipped by a face screw or fixing screw thenyou've got live screws which can be touched
I have come across this in the past. It's ok to say test when finished, but any undue movement in the cable through natural expansion etc, could cause a fault to develop through time.

 

[Andy78]

I have one worry with this, and that is metal backboxes with metal lugs, especially in stud walls where if a cable is nipped by a face screw or fixing screw thenyou've got live screws which can be touched
I have come across this in the past. It's ok to say test when finished, but any undue movement in the cable through natural expansion etc, could cause a fault to develop through time.

Sorry, I neglected to say that if you want to do it properly you can use these.
3.5mm x 35 NYLON PLASTIC COUNTERSUNK PHILLIPS M3.5 SCREW NUT & WASHER PACK OF 10 | eBay
I have a slack handful in my fixings box if I need them.

 

[Sparkie30]

thanks this is exactly what i wanted to hear! the RCD FCU is probably the best option as its the cheapest and easiest way

Could someone answer another quick question for me? i think i know the answer but i want too check

The customer wants me to do a simple swap out of some fittings (swap switches for new ones, light fittings for new ones, all like for like work) would this sort of job be something you would be required to bring that circuit up to 17th edition standard? I know obviously if there is no earths in lighting circuits etc then that is all required to be fixed, but if the circuit is in a generally good condition other than not being RCD protected, would it be up to me to do that although im only doing like for like swaps?

thanks,
gavin

just change like for like mate

you seem a bit keen changing that board but if i was you i wouldn't think about it mate otherwise you might be there for days me thinks

 

[Sparkie30]

I have a slack handful in my fixings box if I need them.

im sure you do mate lol

 

[Andy78]

Never know when i might need em.

 

[eganelectrical]

So can someone def confirm that if you are adding on To an existing (non rcd) circuit then you need to make this rcd protected?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Yes they do, read 411.3.3 for the full answer.

 

[72-van]

Sorry, I neglected to say that if you want to do it properly you can use these.
3.5mm x 35 NYLON PLASTIC COUNTERSUNK PHILLIPS M3.5 SCREW NUT & WASHER PACK OF 10 | eBay
I have a slack handful in my fixings box if I need them.

Heres an interesting thought brought on by these plastic screws .

A house owned by a relative has metal conduit and back boxes which are its cpc for its ring main the sockets have no 'flying earth' and use these screws to get an earth to the accessory should a diyer use these plastic screws then the socket would be unearthed .

wonder if any diyer or Electrical Trainee has done something like that ?

 

[electric al]

a slack handful ? ooo get you haha