smoke - heat - carbon alarms

[driverman]

I will be installing several smoke - heat and carbon monoxide detectors shortly as per spec. I've not done carbon monoxide detectors before. I take it, electrically wiring them is the same as smoke and heat detectors. They will be wired and interconnected on one circuit and protected by a RCBO. Any good makes out there that cover all 3 requirements and look neat? Thanks

 

[trev]

Aico.....

 

[Plonker 3]

As Trev said, AICO is the what you want to fit.

 

[driverman]

As Trev said, AICO is the what you want to fit.

Thanks Trev and Dillb............Just had a quick look, will look later though when at home. With this manufacture, bearing in mind its a domestic installation, is a panel necessary? Or did i look in wrong place? I had visions of just wiring 1mm 6242Y to first sensor then 1mm 6243Y to the remainder. About 8 sensors required.

 

[Plonker 3]

No, you just need to interlink with a 3 core and CPC. Obviously read the MI in regards to OCPD and RCD/RCBO protection etc.

 

[trev]

You don't need a panel, I put a load in an HMO a few months back, one on every landing one in each habitable room, heat detector in kitchen and a co where the boiler was. All interlinked, fed as one circuit (I know but LABC wanted it that way) No panel

 

[sparkee]

Have a look on playstore for aico app called handyfacts. Will tell you all you need to know. I also install a test switch at mains position for easier testing and hushing of system.

 

[Octopus]

Why are you planning to put on a seperate circuit?

 

[driverman]

Why are you planning to put on a separate circuit?

Ah yes, this has been discussed before on another thread. Your thinking on with a light circuit? Has it's merits re lights off, customer will deal with it therefore restoring power to smokes etc.

 

[Octopus]

Ah yes, this has been discussed before on another thread. Your thinking on with a light circuit? Has it's merits re lights off, customer will deal with it therefore restoring power to smokes etc.

I've stopped putting smokes on a seperate circuit.

Have you called your scheme and asked them?

 

[tazz]

If the domestic dwelling is only 2 levels (ie ground and first floor) then Aico is fine, as a grade D system....If dwelling is over 3 floors, then full system is required with panel, as a Grade A.
Circuits on Grade D can be on own circuit or from lighting, the choice is yours. Both methods of circuit installation are accepted under BS

 

[Octopus]

If the domestic dwelling is only 2 levels (ie ground and first floor) then Aico is fine, as a grade D system....If dwelling is over 3 floors, then full system is required with panel, as a Grade A.
Circuits on Grade D can be on own circuit or from lighting, the choice is yours. Both methods of circuit installation are accepted under BS

Is that British Standard or Bull S..... lol

Out of interest Tazz, what do you do? Seperate circuit or off lights?

 

[tazz]

Its BS5839 part 6 Clive, as long as the system has battery back up, and is Grade D, then both methods are acceptable. Any less the Grade D, ie mains only smokes, then must be on own circuit.
Most added detection, I take off lighting, all new builds, own circuit, with lock off on mcb...this is usually stated in specifications for the project.

 

[Octopus]

Its BS5839 part 6 Clive, as long as the system has battery back up, and is Grade D, then both methods are acceptable. Any less the Grade D, ie mains only smokes, then must be on own circuit.
Most added detection, I take off lighting, all new builds, own circuit, with lock off on mcb...this is usually stated in specifications for the project.

I was joking!

 

[driverman]

Is that British Standard or Bull S..... lol

Out of interest Tazz, what do you do? Seperate circuit or off lights?

Re on separate circuit....if carry out a global IR test, easy to knock off smoke circuit before carrying out IR test thus eliminating damaging smokes. Electrician might not know that smokes are even there and on lights. I know we should all ways look for sensitive equipment...but accidents happen. Was there a rule a bit back that they had to go on separate circuits, then relented?

 

[tazz]

Always been that standard on part 6...you can argue, there would be led drivers, led lamps etc, on the lighting circuit, as well as tv`s, computers etc on the ring main circuit. Down to you to check before conducting test.

 

[davesparks]

Either way you just unclip the smokes etc from their bases before testing, it's not like you can't easily see where they are is it. They don't get buried behind ridiculous furniture like sockets and sw/fuses do

 

[driverman]

Either way you just unclip the smokes etc from their bases before testing, it's not like you can't easily see where they are is it. They don't get buried behind ridiculous furniture like sockets and sw/fuses do

yep ...good point

 

[Carlosfandango]

I'm sure I read on the aico mi that co2 detectors can only be interlinked with smokes if a locator switch is fitted. Could be wrong though?

 

[tazz]

I'm sure I read on the aico mi that co2 detectors can only be interlinked with smokes if a locator switch is fitted. Could be wrong though?

Its a CO detector, and comes under a different BS standard 50292......In domestic dwellings, it easier to wired into the smoke detection circuit, as what better, than having 3 or more sounders for early warning...there is no rule to say a locator or indicator should be fitted, but again it does make sense to show weather its a fire or CO contamination.

 

[Simlec]

I'm sure I read on the aico mi that co2 detectors can only be interlinked with smokes if a locator switch is fitted. Could be wrong though?

You would be correct. The reason is because the CO2 alarms should have a differing tone than the fire when in alarm, but they don't and Aicos way around this is to have a silence switch/control which then tells you if it's fire or CO2. It's in the install guide book thing.

Personally I don't think it complies but something is better than nothing.

 

[tazz]

You would be correct. The reason is because the CO2 alarms should have a differing tone than the fire when in alarm, but they don't and Aicos way around this is to have a silence switch/control which then tells you if it's fire or CO2. It's in the install guide book thing.

Personally I don't think it complies but something is better than nothing.

Can we please get this correct it is a CO detector as in Carbon monoxide ....a CO2 is Carbon Dioxide....
Simlec, I would say the same, there is no reg, as it is combined with a fire detection system, so knowing what has set off the system, can only be a bonus, and aid quick detection.

 

[Simlec]

Sorry yes red wine regarding Co2
yes carbon monoxide and it's page 36 part 6 and states in Aico book that a controller must be used if mixing smoke alarms and carbon monoxide

 

[tazz]

It only advisory...but a think its good advice to fit. Problem here as stated before is we are dealing with 2 different BS standards, but in the real world, they are being used together within a system.
Sometimes I think Aico have a lot to answer for.

 

[Simlec]

It does say must in Aico MI

This is the bit I love in BS5839 pick any part..

"Use of this document
This British Standard takes the form of guidance and recommendations. It should
not be quoted as if it were a specification and particular care should be taken to
ensure that claims of compliance are not misleading.
Any user claiming compliance with this British Standard is expected to be able to
justify any course of action that deviates from its recommendations."

 

[tazz]

This again is the problem....fire/smoke alarms are BS5839 part 6 in a domestic dwellings...CO alarms are BS 50292, Aico have decided to combine the both in one system...so in this situation we can only follow both BS regs, and make a common sense approach, being some form of indication is needed to show fire or co. I think the conclusion is to indicate the difference

 

[shanky887614]

surely everyone here that does an ir on an unknown circuit first tests at 250 between (L+N) to E

 

[driverman]

Tin hat on.....can smoke ,heat and carbon detectors be all inter linked on sme circuit. Is the carbon sounder different from the smoke heat sounders.

 

[tazz]

yes, no reg saying the cannot be all linked.....but as we have pointed out in earlier posts, its a good idea to have a locator switch, so you can identify which detector has been activated

 

[driverman]

yes, no reg saying the cannot be all linked.....but as we have pointed out in earlier posts, its a good idea to have a locator switch, so you can identify which detector has been activated

Will look up what is a locator switch.

 

[Carlosfandango]

A switch that locates!

 

[tazz]

lol....on activation all smokes/heat/co go in alarm, pressing the locator switch, will turn off all alarms except the one which initially activated. Thus now you know where the fire or co activation started.

 

[driverman]

lol....on activation all smokes/heat/co go in alarm, pressing the locator switch, will turn off all alarms except the one which initially activated. Thus now you know where the fire or co activation started.

Just read in AICO booklet (pages 116-17) that if Smoke and Carbon detectors on same circuit...an Alarm Control Switch MUST be fitted. I take it, that this is different from an isolation switch. Any one any ideas the difference between the two items?

 

[tazz]

No....If you look at the Aico control switch it has 3 buttons, Locate...Test....Silence

 

[driverman]

No....If you look at the Aico control switch it has 3 buttons, Locate...Test....Silence

Sorry I meant to say difference between locator switch and Alarm Control switch.
Alarm Locator switch.....has one switch. (Ei159)
Alarm Control Switch....has two switches (Ei1529RC)
Do they have to be fitted between the first and second detector or any where in circuit?

 

[tazz]

The control switch can be fitted anywhere within the the circuit.....the rc type is radio controlled so must be learnt to house code.

 

[driverman]

The control switch can be fitted anywhere within the the circuit.....the rc type is radio controlled so must be learnt to house code.

Thanks for quick reply.....just to confirm, this will be hard wired system. 1mm T+E & 1mm 3core E Bit thrown by radio controlled?

 

[tazz]

Hardwired is 3 core & earth to nearest detector, rc type is just as it says, no wires using rc to control