Different standards different trades

[Plonker 3]

I have never done it so wouldn't know. But if its not covered by BS7671 I would look to find out which BS does cover it and pass it on if I didn't understand or know what actually needs to be done.

 

[elevate]

If we had a scenario where the electricians fitted the cu, motor room lighting and shaft lighting (which is common) and the lift engineers fitted all the other circuits to the cu. Who would be responsible for testing and signing off the cu ?

 

[Guest125]

You can beg as much as you like, lift shaft electrical as well as fire protection inspections/testing is a requirement, carried out by the the lift company or by an independant company....

Completely agree. My angle was that an EICR would stop normally at the isolator. Anything after that would be done to the lift engineers.

 

[Guest125]

If we had a scenario where the electricians fitted the cu, motor room lighting and shaft lighting (which is common) and the lift engineers fitted all the other circuits to the cu. Who would be responsible for testing and signing off the cu ?

I would like to think that the electricians signed it all off before allowing your guys in to work around it.

 

[elevate]

I would like to think that the electricians signed it all off before allowing your guys in to work around it.

A lot of the time especially on a new build the cu is installed first we connect our circuits and shaft lighting etc is connected after by the electricians, who would sign the certs for the cu

 

[elevate]

Elevate, i can't tell you how many times i've been up and down lift shafts on top of lift cars in the course of conducting inspections, far too many to count anyway. I wouldn't like to travel on top of the car however, before the car and system safety functions have been thoroughly tested and confirmed.... lol!!

4.1.1 All persons who might at any time be working on a lift or related equipment, be working within a
well, pit, machinery space or pulley room, or be carrying out risk assessments, should possess demonstrable
competence in basic lift safety and procedures, or be under relevant supervision.
NOTE 1 Relevant supervision may be provided by any person who possesses demonstrable competence in basic lift safety and
procedures.
NOTE 2 A suitable level of qualification is EMTA NVQ EOR/202, although other equivalent qualifications can exist.

There you go, as long as with one of us, its ok.

 

[pennychew]

I'd never thought of working on lifts but it sounds an interesting job, what are the career prospects like, is there much scope for upwards progression?

 

[Guest125]

A lot of the time especially on a new build the cu is installed first we connect our circuits and shaft lighting etc is connected after by the electricians, who would sign the certs for the cu

Whomever installed the distribution board would sign that off first. Then the electricians that return to add lights etc to this dist. board would then also need to test and sign off their work.

 

[elevate]

Its a good trade, also can be a very dangerous one. A lapse of concentration can get you seriously hurt or killed. You only get seconds to react when something goes wrong.
Not trying to put anyone off but thats the reality.

 

[pennychew]

I suppose like any job there are ups and downs

 

[elevate]

I suppose like any job there are ups and downs

Not heard that one before :ihih:

 

[Engineer54]

4.1.1 All persons who might at any time be working on a lift or related equipment, be working within a
well, pit, machinery space or pulley room, or be carrying out risk assessments, should possess demonstrable
competence in basic lift safety and procedures, or be under relevant supervision.
NOTE 1 Relevant supervision may be provided by any person who possesses demonstrable competence in basic lift safety and
procedures.
NOTE 2 A suitable level of qualification is EMTA NVQ EOR/202, although other equivalent qualifications can exist.

There you go, as long as with one of us, its ok.

Who do you think is operating the lift while the inspections are being carried out then?? lol!!

 

[Knobhead]

Rules and regs say only qualified personell should enter the lift shaft. How many sparks are trained and qualified enter the shaft and work on top or underneath the lift car ?

There’s one I know of, me ;-) originally trained by Wadsworth.

Also trained in lift rescue. Training by Otis.*

And yes it is fun riding on the car top.
It was also a good way of getting rid of our engineering manager. I’d taken him on the car top and overrode the top limit so in could test the ultimate limit. After that he vanished if he found out I was working on a lift. The poor little lamb panicked as that gap got smaller.
I’m just glad I wasn’t testing the dogs, I’d have been in a small space with the smell of his poo.

I altered all of our goods lifts to give manual control on the car top and then had the rigmarole of getting it approved by the underwriters. After I’d done the first one the others were more or less given the nod. But that first one they went through every mortal thing. Which is more than I can say for the underwriters for our cranes. They couldn’t care less so long as it worked.

We did the weekly maintenance with an inspection by the underwriters every six months. Again they were as keen as mustard. What surprised me was they even picked up on a worn sleeve bearing on the NDE of a motor.

Regarding the shaft lighting, it was only fitted to the last lift we had installed. Unfortunately for the lads installing it I was overseeing the job. It all had to come out and be done in SWA to comply with M&Q regulations.
All motor room wiring to be either SWA or conduit. We even specified an Ellison OCB to be fitted in the motor room.
For the car down shaft leads we specified 2.5mm[SUP]2[/SUP] cambric terminated in to a JB on the motor room floor. SWA multicore from the JB to the panel.

I’ll agree with you the install methods were slapdash but we worked to M&Q and they simply had to work to our standards like it or not.

*To give you a laugh.
I was the only person on site able to carry out lift rescues. Have a guess who got stuck in the lift? Four sodding hours in a sub zero box waiting for a guy from Otis to get me out! All chargehand electricians had to be trained after that episode.

 

[elevate]

Have not seen Ellison OCBs for years, that must have been a while ago.

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve got one being delivered sometime next month. A little 30A Bantam, rescued from a motor room.

 

[Knobhead]

I suppose like any job there are ups and downs

It's the downs you've got to worry about.

 

[arkin]

Completely agree. My angle was that an EICR would stop normally at the isolator. Anything after that would be done to the lift engineers.

We have had EICR done on a 14 story building at a rate of 20% of the total installation per year over a five year period as agreed with the client. And last years included lift DBs and the like, we had to get lift engineers involved to facilitate access to lift shaft circuits and supplies to lift motor rooms. So I fact everything was tested apart from the circuit from the actual lift controller to the lift motor. A number of c1 and c2 faults were found but that's another story.

 

[elevate]

Was the bonding to the guide rails, entrances, push button plates and indicator plates also checked ?

 

[ian.settle1]

I suppose it's one of those jobs that it's great to work you way to the top but when it goes totally wrong you can come back to earth with a bang.