Direct online forwarding and reverse.

[Zaprinski]

Hi I little confused now , I learn electrical installation Level 3 , but I never did before very difficult, some people working on trade is very easy.
I little be Sad because I not like leaving on course.
Someone have options I be happy working volunteer just keep experiencing.
Probably after that in the future maybe be more and more difficult for me , Level 2 was amazing 13 people, in group, 2 tutors.
Now around 20 just one .
I don’t know with the best way I keep looking everywhere for jobs .

 

[Spoon]

There are lots of people looking for experience. Lets hope you get someone who can offer you some.

Do you have a question on the Direct OnLine Forward/Reverse schematic?
Do you need it explaining to you?

Also, why not try and get into the Trainee section of the forum.

APPLYING FOR TRAINEE FORUM ACCESS - in - The Welcome Forum

, APPLYING FOR TRAINEE FORUM ACCESS, The Welcome Forum, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[Zaprinski]

Yes I need the help for directonline forward and reversing, Please?
I just watched video in YouTube but is different thing .

 

[MJPD29]

Hi what part is it you need help with? Did you tell your training provider your not happy with it?

 

[Spoon]

Ok, I will explain how the circuit above works.
This is just the 'control' section of the motor.

You have 110V going through the Stop button and Overload contact. It stops there as all the other contacts are Open.
If someone was to press the Forward Start button the this would make the circuit going through the Forward Coil and energise that contactor. This would also make the Normally Open Forward contact close, latching (locking closed) the circuit through the Forward Coil, so when the Forward Start button is released the Forward N/O contact (which is now closed) keeps the circuit.
TO open the circuit the Stop button has to be pressed or the Overload contact has to open. (This happens the the motor detects an overload)

If someone now presses the Reverse Start button then the Reverse N/C contact opens the circuit for the Forward section and makes it for the Reverse section of the circuit.

 

[Zaprinski]

Hi what part is it you need help with? Did you tell your training provider your not happy with it?

Yes , I tell them because they give me drawings and that it , nearly 20 people, this is courses for adults learning not for professional people, I can’t doing too fast because I doing different jobs now ?
Sorry for this conversation but I’m confused now ?
I probably leave in Courses ?????

 

[Spoon]

I probably leave in Courses ?????

Don't leave the course, especially if you have already payed for it.
You may just have to look though YouTube & Google sites to find the information you want and to understand it better. Just keep trying.

 

[Zaprinski]

Ok, I will explain how the circuit above works.
This is just the 'control' section of the motor.

You have 110V going through the Stop button and Overload contact. It stops there as all the other contacts are Open.
If someone was to press the Forward Start button the this would make the circuit going through the Forward Coil and energise that contactor. This would also make the Normally Open Forward contact close, latching (locking closed) the circuit through the Forward Coil, so when the Forward Start button is released the Forward N/O contact (which is now closed) keeps the circuit.
TO open the circuit the Stop button has to be pressed or the Overload contact has to open. (This happens the the motor detects an overload)

If someone now presses the Reverse Start button then the Reverse N/C contact opens the circuit for the Forward section and makes it for the Reverse section of the circuit.

Don't leave the course, especially if you have already payed for it.
You may just have to look though YouTube & Google sites to find the information you want and to understand it better. Just keep trying.

I’ Not pay but I’m confused now , I know Level 3 professionalisms but , I’m there for learning?
Can You make some drawing please , still confused .After overload 95 back in start button 4 or back in Frw contactor .
[automerge]1570097205[/automerge]

 

[Spoon]

The wire from the Overload contact (Pin 95) will connect to FWD Start button (4), REV Start button(4), FWD N/O (14) & REV N/O (14)

 

[James]

erm, you are missing the 110V transformer.

 

[Spoon]

erm, you are missing the 110V transformer.

I don't see any power going into the assembly he has set up but I'm assuming all the parts he has are the correct ones and he has the correct voltage.

 

[Zaprinski]

erm, you are missing the 110V transformer.

No just following drawings, This is not my just example.
[automerge]1570099681[/automerge]

The wire from the Overload contact (Pin 95) will connect to FWD Start button (4), REV Start button(4), FWD N/O (14) & REV N/O (14)

 

[Spoon]

No just following drawings, This is not my just example.
[automerge]1570099681[/automerge]

Ok, so just so that I'm clear on this: You are just following the drawing and picture, to see how it works and not actually wiring anything up?

 

[Zaprinski]

This is just example, but how do you know with one contactor is Forward and with Reversing?

 

[James]

the forward and reverse contactors are both identical.
the difference is the power going to
forward contactor is wired L1 L2 L3 from left to right
reverse contactor is wired L3 L2 L1 from left to right
this gives either a clockwise or anticlockwise phase rotation.

it helps if you mark them as fw and rev before you start connecting anything as this will help you identify what you are wiring to.

 

[Spoon]

This is just example, but how do you know with one contactor is Forward and with Reversing?

View attachment 52806

The Forward Contactor will be the one with the Forward Start pushbutton wired to the N/O of that contact.
or if nothing is labelled up then:
As the Forward & Reverse circuits are functionally the same then just pick one for Forward and the other for Reverse. The actual Forward & Reverse wiring for the motor is not part of this circuit.

 

[Zaprinski]

The Forward Contactor will be the one with the Forward Start pushbutton wired to the N/O of that contact.
or if nothing is labelled up then:
As the Forward & Reverse circuits are functionally the same then just pick one for Forward and the other for Reverse. The actual Forward & Reverse wiring for the motor is not part of this circuit.

I just understand little be now but Still needs to learnings more and more any book in online For support looking how to work .
Thank you for help , Have nice day .

 

[Spoon]

I just understand little be now but Still needs to learnings more and more any book in online For support looking how to work .
Thank you for help , Have nice day .

Here is a thread about someone asking a similar question.
See if any of the info us useful to you.
I'm sure there are members who will also suggest good books.

 

[Zaprinski]

the forward and reverse contactors are both identical.
the difference is the power going to
forward contactor is wired L1 L2 L3 from left to right
reverse contactor is wired L3 L2 L1 from left to right
this gives either a clockwise or anticlockwise phase rotation.

it helps if you mark them as fw and rev before you start connecting anything as this will help you identify what you are wiring to.

Thank you .
[automerge]1570107451[/automerge]

Thank you .

The same thing 3 phase motor used brown,black and grey cable ????

 

[James]

the theory behind it is L1 L2 L3 gives a clockwise phase rotation and it is a repeating pattern,

L1 L2 L3 L1 L2 L3 L1 L2 L3 and so on

so if you pick any 3 that are next to each other it will give clockwise rotation.
i.e L2 L3 L1 is still clockwise and so is L3 L1 L2
convention and simplicity means that we wire 1 2 3 but the other options will work the same.

 

[Zaprinski]

the theory behind it is L1 L2 L3 gives a clockwise phase rotation and it is a repeating pattern,

L1 L2 L3 L1 L2 L3 L1 L2 L3 and so on

so if you pick any 3 that are next to each other it will give clockwise rotation.
i.e L2 L3 L1 is still clockwise and so is L3 L1 L2
convention and simplicity means that we wire 1 2 3 but the other options will work the same.

I try tonight, make the example on empty page .
Just need to to be be careful motor is 400v.???
That asking for advice all day .
Thank you ...

 

[Zaprinski]

The Forward Contactor will be the one with the Forward Start pushbutton wired to the N/O of that contact.
or if nothing is labelled up then:
As the Forward & Reverse circuits are functionally the same then just pick one for Forward and the other for Reverse. The actual Forward & Reverse wiring for the motor is not part of this circuit.

Can you asking for writing wires drawing please , should be easy .
Thank you .

 

[telectrix]

have a look on here:

forward/reverse contactor wiring - Google Search

this diagram seems the easiest to follow:

 

[Spoon]

Can you asking for writing wires drawing please , should be easy .
Thank you .

Sorry mate, I don't understand the question.
You already have the schematic, so I presume you don't want that again.

 

[Zaprinski]

Sorry mate, I don't understand the question.
You already have the schematic, so I presume you don't want that again.

Ok , Easy wiring diagram but , I doing step by step .
[automerge]1570617860[/automerge]

Ok , Easy wiring diagram but , I doing step by step .

Thank you for help .

 

[telectrix]

step by step is best. break each section down, understand the workings, then combine all together.

 

[Spoon]

Ok , Easy wiring diagram but , I doing step by step .

Have a look at @telectrix post above, with the wiring diagram on it. That shows the wiring for the motor as well.
Also follow his advice about breaking the schematic into sections.
If you have any questions mate then just ask.

 

[Zaprinski]

have a look on here:

forward/reverse contactor wiring - Google Search

this diagram seems the easiest to follow:
View attachment 52982

Using the same method , 3 phase wiring brown, black and grey.

 

[Zaprinski]

The Forward Contactor will be the one with the Forward Start pushbutton wired to the N/O of that contact.
or if nothing is labelled up then:
As the Forward & Reverse circuits are functionally the same then just pick one for Forward and the other for Reverse. The actual Forward & Reverse wiring for the motor is not part of this circuit.

Can you asking for writing wires dia

The Forward Contactor will be the one with the Forward Start pushbutton wired to the N/O of that contact.
or if nothing is labelled up then:
As the Forward & Reverse circuits are functionally the same then just pick one for Forward and the other for Reverse. The actual Forward & Reverse wiring for the motor is not part of this circuit.
[/QUOTE
Finally done last night.

Ok, so just so that I'm clear on this: You are just following the drawing and picture, to see how it works and not actually wiring anything up?

Finally done last night. Thank you for Help .

 

[Spoon]

Glad you got it working mate.

If you want, now that it is working I'd tidy it up, label cables and use correct colour cables.
Just for general information, below is a screen shot of cable colour identification, from BS EN 60204-1-2018 (page 83)

 

[Zaprinski]

Good morning again ,any Idea I looking for example cable sizing.
[automerge]1571565704[/automerge]

 

[Pete999]

Good morning again ,any Idea I looking for example cable sizing.View attachment 53253View attachment 53254
[automerge]1571565704[/automerge]

Iitle unfers you need help in DOL forward and Reverse of a motor

 

[Zaprinski]

Iitle unfers you need help in DOL forward and Reverse of a motor

I know , but I don’t like make new post .
I little be confused theory now , I not have proper book,Any idea where did I find examples test .
I’m ready too pay small amount ££££.
Pdf file .
Thank you .

 

[Spoon]

I know , but I don’t like make new post .
I little be confused theory now , I not have proper book,Any idea where did I find examples test .
I’m ready too pay small amount ££££.
Pdf file .
Thank you .

Hi mate.
It's best if you do new questions in a new post mate.
Also, if you are going to get into electrical design then you need to get the BS7161 book.

IET Wiring Regulations 18th Edition

IET Wiring Regulations 18th Edition The IET 18th Edition Wiring Regulations are the definitive standard for the design, installation and maintenance of electrical systems in domestic, commercial and industrial properties in the UK (single- and three-phase systems up to 100A), as well as in other...

www.test-meter.co.uk

Also, with questions like the above, we don't like giving out answers without you first attempting to do the question and showing us your workings-out. Then we can correct anything. It's the best way of learning.

 

[Baddegg]

It always looks intimidating @Zaprinski when it written like that but all the things you need are in bs 7671 just take your time and break the question down.....if you know your design current and installation method and relevant correction factors you can choose your cable and then you can calculate for volt drop, the more you do it the easier it gets...good luck

 

[Zaprinski]

Hi mate.
It's best if you do new questions in a new post mate.
Also, if you are going to get into electrical design then you need to get the BS7161 book.

IET Wiring Regulations 18th Edition

IET Wiring Regulations 18th Edition The IET 18th Edition Wiring Regulations are the definitive standard for the design, installation and maintenance of electrical systems in domestic, commercial and industrial properties in the UK (single- and three-phase systems up to 100A), as well as in other...

www.test-meter.co.uk

Also, with questions like the above, we don't like giving out answers without you first attempting to do the question and showing us your workings-out. Then we can correct anything. It's the best way of learning.

Ok I got book I try to work out and show you my home work .
Thank you for help .

 

[EricMark]

Most forward and reverse needs some time for the motor to stop. The circuit you have shown would allow the motor to be reversed with any time for it to stop first.

 

[Simon47]

Yes, I'd observed that. There should really be a N/C contact from each direction's contactor inhibiting the other direction's coil circuit. Wouldn't stop the operator hitting stop then reverse immediately - but it would stop them just hitting reverse.
Mind you, the mechanical interlock would deal with that - but IMO it would be poor design to be relying on that rather than designing the control circuit correctly.

 

[Zaprinski]

Yes, I'd observed that. There should really be a N/C contact from each direction's contactor inhibiting the other direction's coil circuit. Wouldn't stop the operator hitting stop then reverse immediately - but it would stop them just hitting reverse.
Mind you, the mechanical interlock would deal with that - but IMO it would be poor design to be relying on that rather than designing the control circuit correctly.

Thank you .

 

[Spoon]

Yes, I'd observed that. There should really be a N/C contact from each direction's contactor inhibiting the other direction's coil circuit.

There is. There is a N/C contact from the Reverse contactor in the Forward circuit and vice veras.