Eicr,I never like these

[Dartlec]

These are ok, but I always worry that I might accidentally release the conductors when cramming them into whatever is enclosing them. I prefer the lever 221s myself.

If the cable comes forward into the enclosure I do usually use 221s, but where the cable is trimmed right back to the wall and you only have an inch or so of exposed wire and limited space, then the 224 comes into its own

 

[cliffed]

Thanks for all comments ,all cabling needs to be connected in appropriate enclosure,the wall light is not an enclosure.
Cables can be seen when light is fitted & also the danger of causing a fault when re-fitting light.
Agree with all & pondering C3 or C2,the difference there is unsatisfactory or satisffactory status.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

all cabling needs to be connected in appropriate enclosure,the wall light is not an enclosure.

If the wall light is a metallic class 2 one, then I'd agree, the terminations would need to be in one of those supplied tiny plastic boxes to insulated them from the metal casing. But looking at your picture it appears to be earthed, so I'm assuming class 1? In which case I don't see any problem with the connections being made in the base (again I'm assuming a hollow metallic base).

 

[catdog1121]

Single insulated cable outside of an enclosure, according to NAPIT codebreakers its a C2 and I totally agree.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Single insulated cable outside of an enclosure, according to NAPIT codebreakers its a C2 and I totally agree.

would the light fitting itself form an enclosure thou ...?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

would the light fitting itself form an enclosure thou ...?

Almost certainly. Many light fittings with a hollow base have a connector block fixed in their base, the centre terminal connected to a tab earthing the fitting. Where else are you going to make the connection?

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Haha Codebreakers ??

 

[cliffed]

Code 2,says it all really.
[automerge]1601191955[/automerge]
Another one bites the dust ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Code 2,says it all really.
[automerge]1601191955[/automerge]
Another one bites the dust ?

The three paragraphs you have selected from BPG4 wouldn't apply in the case of your original post because:

1. Single insulated conductors are not accessible to touch or likely to come into contact with metalwork
2. Connections are made within an enclosure according to BS7671. Read carefully the regulation I posted at #11
3. No fire barrier has been breached

With this in mind, please explain how you think this is a C2 - potentially dangerous?

 

[cliffed]

The three paragraphs you have selected from BPG4 wouldn't apply in the case of your original post because:

1. Single insulated conductors are not accessible to touch or likely to come into contact with metalwork
2. Connections are made within an enclosure according to BS7671. Read carefully the regulation I posted at #11
3. No fire barrier has been breached

With this in mind, please explain how you think this is a C2 - potentially dangerous?

Could be potentially dangerous,& definitely a fire hazard.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Could be potentially dangerous,& definitely a fire hazard.

Please can you qualify that statement with some kind of explanation? How is it potentially dangerous? What is the increased risk of installing this way? How is there an increased risk of fire over other common installation methods? Please explain.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Is that on a brick wall? If so it’s not a fire rest is it?

 

[cliffed]

Please can you qualify that statement with some kind of explanation? How is it potentially dangerous? What is the increased risk of installing this way? How is there an increased risk of fire over other common installation methods? Please explain.

Not the best connection.
No actually fire barrier,the connections can be seen,when light is refixed.
Failure of earth connection @ light, danger of live @ fitting,causing shock hazard to persons.
[automerge]1601227658[/automerge]
How can anyone actually say this is ok, it’s like going back to the bad old days.
Would anyone just leave it like this,C2 .

 

[Dartlec]

Is that on a brick wall? If so it’s not a fire rest is it?

Certainly not more of a fire hazard than on a plasterboard ceiling imo, and most modern Class 1 lights use the ceiling as part of their enclosure so presumably they feel it's sufficient.

As already mentioned, 526.5 allows building material that is non-combustible to BS 476-4 but since that is no doubt £100 I'm not looking up whether brick or plaster is covered, though I'd expect it is.

If there was a hole through to the cavity there might be another argument - but then that is the case with most ceiling lights and even many pendants
[automerge]1601228255[/automerge]

Not the best connection.

I'd fix that on site and charge accordingly, not note it. But either the connection is tight and secure or not. We aren't coding workmanship.

No actually fire barrier,

the connections can be seen,when light is refixed.

I (and others I think) assumed the light fitting went over that hole and covered it, but if the terminal blocks were visible when the light went back on then we've been talking at cross purposes and obviously it's a C2 (maybe C1) and I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise...

Failure of earth connection @ light, danger of live @ fitting,causing shock hazard to persons.

Can't tell that from the picture, but no earth continuity at a Class 1 light is certainly a C2, don't think anyone here would say otherwise?

How can anyone actually say this is ok, it’s like going back to the bad old days.
Would anyone just leave it like this,C2 .
[/QUOTE]

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Not the best connection.
No actually fire barrier,the connections can be seen,when light is refixed.
Failure of earth connection @ light, danger of live @ fitting,causing shock hazard to persons.
[automerge]1601227658[/automerge]
How can anyone actually say this is ok, it’s like going back to the bad old days.
Would anyone just leave it like this,C2 .

I think you need to upload a picture of the light fitted back on the wall, we can only comment on what we see.

The type of enclosure has no bearing on the soundness of the connections. If the light is not earthed due to a loose connection, again the type of enclosure is irrelevant. If there is physical access to live parts when the light is fitted then it's a C1, so why didn't you say this in your first post?

 

[westward10]

Cliff I don't think EICRs are really your bag.

 

[cliffed]

Cliff I don't think EICRs are really your bag.

You funny man.
My conscience is still intact,& still C2

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

You funny man.
My conscience is still intact,& still C2

I’m sorry mate. If the light is fixed back and connections are enclosed, it’s not a fire risk and it’s not a shock risk C3 at best, and that probably been harsh. If a metal fitting isn’t earthed then that’s a C2. If you can get your finger to the connections it’s a C1.
Ideally this should have a metal architrave box behind it, that would be good practice. All you are seeing is bad practice.

 

[cliffed]

I’m sorry mate. If the light is fixed back and connections are enclosed, it’s not a fire risk and it’s not a shock risk C3 at best, and that probably been harsh. If a metal fitting isn’t earthed then that’s a C2. If you can get your finger to the connections it’s a C1.
Ideally this should have a metal architrave box behind it, that would be good practice. All you are seeing is bad practice.

Ok,down to interpretation,opinion & experience.
Its my report my interpretation,my conscience,I’m sticking.
Thanks all for your comments all taken on board.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Ok,down to interpretation,opinion & experience.
Its my report my interpretation,my conscience,I’m sticking.
Thanks all for your comments all taken on board.

At the end of the day it’s your call, how will you carry out works to rectify this c2 if you win the remedial works just out of interest?