Henley block - fuse box - what wire etc

[militis]

Need help, I need to supply a 4th floor flat from a basement flat off the same meter, there is the main fuse then the meter.
I was going to put a henly block after the meter then straight up 4 floors to a fuse box, I think I need an RCD before it makes its journey up, don't know the cable I will need, just a bit lost in general would appreciate any advice.

 

[Maddison]

need more info like how big is the meth lab ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Work out the expected load and OCPD,then using App 4 decide on a cable type and installation method.Select a cable size and work out if it meets the voltdrop requirements.

 

[uksparks]

You could try this method, are you sure its the 4th floor flat and not the loft space.... I have even got this cable spare now, about 40 meters of it... Seemed to work ok for them.

 

[Octopus]

Dare I suggest you contact a local sparky?

 

[Darkwood]

The OP is a builder but holds all the qualifications to know how to do this work correctly...

We live in scary times when this kind of question is asked by a qualified person IMHO

' I think I need an RCD before it makes its journey up, don't know the cable I will need. '



What does it say in your copy of the BS7671?... We are happy to guide you but we are not going to hand feed you the answers to something you should already know, explain what part of the BS7671 is confusing you and we will explain it.

I think you need a competent person in to at least direct you and ensure you do this correctly, knowing how to do this is crucial for your Inspection and Testing qualification you hold - how can you be expected to do an Inspection if you don't know what to look for?

 

[Engineer54]

Scary indeed!! Just remember this guy is going to be on website competent person listings and god knows what else, all because he's paid 500 notes to a Scam Provider!! Qualified, My arse!!

 

[Farmelectrics]

if hes a builder he cant be a qualified spark as well not having that

 

[Octopus]

Or he could call his scheme helpline and see what they say??

 

[militis]

4th floor supply

I posted before about supplying 4th floor from basement, thanks for any help given, thanks to all the clever electricians that said I should know how to do this.
I am going to use a Henley block to split it then a rdc because I am not happy with installation method of wire, 25m wire straight up to the 4th floor.
The volt drop on 16m wire would be fine but I am not quite sure of the load yet.
I am going to use 25m armoured wire straight from the rcd up to the 4th floor in to the new fuse box, I will check the ze before connecting the fuse box then a complete re wire of the flat.
I wanted a second opinion because I am a builder and I have only just started doing my own electrical work, I have a time served electrician that works with me but I still like different opinions I thought that's what a forum was I would help anyone in anyway I can without any stuck up remarks.

MILITIS

 

[Sintra]

Threads merged. No need to start a new thread on the same topic.

 

[trev]

So you're a builder who is qualified to carry out electrical work, who is a member of a r£gulatory body and has a copy of BS7671. You have a qualified electrician at your disposal and you don't see anything wrong with anything you've posted?
Have I got that just about right?

 

[Knobhead]

We will help genuine electricians.

It was clear from the outset you haven’t a clue what you are doing, therefore not an electrician.

 

[Sintra]

Re: 4th floor supply

The volt drop on 16m wire would be fine but I am not quite sure of the load yet.

The formula I use for volt drop requires the load to be known. Can you let me know how you worked this out without knowing the load.

 

[uksparks]

Maybe he used zero load as nothing is connected yet...

 

[uksparks]

Re: 4th floor supply

What is the formula for volt drop? E=mc2 or something?

 

[militis]

Basement to 4th floor

(mv/a/m)*LB*Length/1000

I made a ruff estimate of load and decided to go with 25mm
I joined this forum for some help, my electrician that works for me said that some sparks think there something special, I only wanted a bit of advise not a load of arrogant ****s taking the ****.

Cheers for any genuine reply's

No more reply's please get a ****ing life I will stick to getting my answers for my sparks who's a decent fellow and the BS7671

MILITS

 

[Pete999]

Re: 4th floor supply

I posted before about supplying 4th floor from basement, thanks for any help given, thanks to all the clever electricians that said I should know how to do this.
I am going to use a Henley block to split it then a rdc because I am not happy with installation method of wire, 25m wire straight up to the 4th floor.
The volt drop on 16m wire would be fine but I am not quite sure of the load yet.
I am going to use 25m armoured wire straight from the rcd up to the 4th floor in to the new fuse box, I will check the ze before connecting the fuse box then a complete re wire of the flat.
I wanted a second opinion because I am a builder and I have only just started doing my own electrical work, I have a time served electrician that works with me but I still like different opinions I thought that's what a forum was I would help anyone in anyway I can without any stuck up remarks.

MILITIS

If you have time served electricians working for you, why not ask them ??/

 

[Pete999]

Re: 4th floor supply

No wrong go on the nearest electrical forum and ask on there lol

 

[Octopus]

Or as I suggested before ring up your scheme and ask them?????....

 

[trev]

Re: Basement to 4th floor

(mv/a/m)*LB*Length/1000

I made a ruff estimate of load and decided to go with 25mm
I joined this forum for some help, my electrician that works for me said that some sparks think there something special, I only wanted a bit of advise not a load of arrogant ****s taking the ****.

Cheers for any genuine reply's

No more reply's please get a ****ing life I will stick to getting my answers for my sparks who's a decent fellow and the BS7671

MILITS

There- A place
Their- Belonging to a group of people
They're- They are

 

[shanky887614]

he cant ring his scheme because ii doubt there is one or an electrician, if he had one then he would have told the builder what is required.

do not put an rcd before it because there will be no discrimination and everytime something trips e.g. if a lamp blows you will have to go down to the basement to reset the rcd

 

[davesparks]

Re: 4th floor supply

I posted before about supplying 4th floor from basement, thanks for any help given, thanks to all the clever electricians that said I should know how to do this.
I am going to use a Henley block to split it then a rdc because I am not happy with installation method of wire, 25m wire straight up to the 4th floor.
The volt drop on 16m wire would be fine but I am not quite sure of the load yet.
I am going to use 25m armoured wire straight from the rcd up to the 4th floor in to the new fuse box, I will check the ze before connecting the fuse box then a complete re wire of the flat.
I wanted a second opinion because I am a builder and I have only just started doing my own electrical work, I have a time served electrician that works with me but I still like different opinions I thought that's what a forum was I would help anyone in anyway I can without any stuck up remarks.

MILITIS

So you'll be putting the whole flat onto a single RCD in the basement will you? You do realise this does not comply don't you ?

How about a fuse for this submain? You don't seem to have mentioned one yet so I am at a loss as to how you've got to calculating the size of the cable?

What is the earthing system, what are the bonding requirements in the flat?
How is this SWA going to be installed? Where is it going to be installed?
Does it need fireproof supports ?
Does it need to be LSF insulated?

 

[Octopus]

Re: Basement to 4th floor

(mv/a/m)*LB*Length/1000

I made a ruff estimate of load and decided to go with 25mm
I joined this forum for some help, my electrician that works for me said that some sparks think there something special, I only wanted a bit of advise not a load of arrogant ****s taking the ****.

Cheers for any genuine reply's

No more reply's please get a ****ing life I will stick to getting my answers for my sparks who's a decent fellow and the BS7671

MILITS

Matey - if you trying to win friends and influence people you have failed!

My crystal ball sees another sub standard electrical installation about to happen!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Re: Basement to 4th floor

There- A place
Their- Belonging to a group of people
They're- They are

Oi, that's my line!

 

[trev]

Re: Basement to 4th floor

Oi, that's my line!

Royalty cheque is in the post mate

 

[Knobhead]

Re: 4th floor supply

No wrong go on the nearest electrical forum and ask on there lol

Please send him my way, PLEASE!

I'm in an evil mood.

 

[7029 dave]

Switch fuse is an must on any sub your running out.

 

[Knobhead]

Dave, why are you helping a builder do a bodge job? Leave him to it.

 

[7029 dave]

Dave, why are you helping a builder do a bodge job? Leave him to it.

Yeah, but blimey the mind boggles.

 

[shanky887614]

Yeah, but blimey the mind boggles.

have any of you guys come across

red - brown
blue - blue
yellow - g+y

?

 

[7029 dave]

have any of you guys come across

red - brown
blue - blue
yellow - g+y

?

Its red yellow blue (old colours) and no.

 

[shanky887614]

Its red yellow blue (old colours) and no.

yeah i did say red blue yellow

same as the new colors are brown, gray black

 

[7029 dave]

yeah i did say red blue yellow

same as the new colors are brown, grey black

If you say so . lol

 

[davesparks]

Do you mean the SWA with brown, blue and green/yellow cores ?
I've seen it on eBay, can't see the point personally bit I'm sure the Electrical Trainee will love it.

 

[Knobhead]

have any of you guys come across

red - brown
blue - blue
yellow - g+y

?

I had one of our lads connect one end of a 185 3½c PVC SWA to a new MCC.

Red → Brown
Yellow → Gray
Blue → Blue
Black → Black

He then asked why the neutral was fused. He hadn’t even noticed that his “blue phase” was half the size of the “neutral”.
I'd been at the other end of the cable jointing it to a 185 3½c PILC SWA while this was going on. The joint finished I’d gone to test at the end Albert had done. I think everyone on the works heard me shouting.

Thank god Albert retired, he was a bloody liability. This was just one in a long line of cock ups he made.

I’ll never understand why we changed to the harmonised colours.

 

[Darkwood]

Talking about aged liability - one of my customers swapped energy providers and they fitted a new gas meter (industrial size). . . . the smell of gas was around for days then the boiler stopped working, they got them back in and a different Engineer in who was gobsmacked that the previous guy had left a gas leak in 2 places around the meter and had ignored a poor pressure expressing a leak elsewhere in the factory..... basically he hadn't bothered to test the pressure or get out his gas sniffer meter and consequently could have blown the building up, apparently it was his second balls up that month and having a chat to the Engineer he was a liability and a gobsh....e who thought he knew it all.... he may do but he's ruddy dangerous too and looks like early retirement for him with a P45.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I had one of our lads connect one end of a 185 3½c PVC SWA to a new MCC.

Red → Brown
Yellow → Gray
Blue → Blue
Black → Black

He then asked why the neutral was fused. He hadn’t even noticed that his “blue phase” was half the size of the “neutral”.
I'd been at the other end of the cable jointing it to a 185 3½c PILC SWA while this was going on. The joint finished I’d gone to test at the end Albert had done. I think everyone on the works heard me shouting.

Thank god Albert retired, he was a bloody liability. This was just one in a long line of cock ups he made.

I’ll never understand why we changed to the harmonised colours.

On our single phase street lighting system, the old colours (red, yellow, blue) are used as Phase, Neutral, Phase, respectively, and not taped up mind you either. When any jointing is done, the new colours brown, black, grey, are also used in the same sequence and not taped up either!

Now when I got put on the jointing jobs, I would use the brown core as a phase, tape up the black with blue tape (neutral) and tape up the grey core with brown tape (phase).

Still following??

So a meeting on site with the inspector last week, and the dude was in meltdown at what I had done. He simply couldn't understand what was going on. I was like look, we work to the 17th now, it's simples...untaped brown is a phase..blue taped up core is neutral, other taped up brown is the other 'phase'. Nope, he still couldn't get it.

He wanted me to put red, yellow, and blue tape tags on what I had done. The thing looked like a rainbow!

 

[davesparks]

Conductor 1 - Red becomes brown
Conductor 2 - Yellow becomes black
Conductor 3 - Blue becomes grey

Why do people still have trouble getting it right after so many years of having these colours?

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Conductor 1 - Red becomes brown
Conductor 2 - Yellow becomes black
Conductor 3 - Blue becomes grey

Why do people still have trouble getting it right after so many years of having these colours?

I don't, it's straightforward, as you say.

In our single phase system, we have two switched conductors. The idea is if one goes down, every other column should be on. That's why I tape them up accordingly. I don't like using 3 phase colours in a single phase installation. It seems to have caused upset in my case though!

 

[davesparks]

But you said you used the black core as the neutral where you previously used blue as neutral.
To carry on the convention correctly you would now use grey as neutral, not black.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

But you said you used the black core as the neutral where you previously used blue as neutral.
To carry on the convention correctly you would now use grey as neutral, not black.

That's right, but why use 3 phase colours on single phase? I tape up the black with blue tape, and the grey with brown tape.

We are using single phase with two switches. To my mind it should be phase (brown) neutral (black taped up blue), phase (grey taped up brown). That's what I do, but apparently it's wrong!

 

[davesparks]

That's right, but why use 3 phase colours on single phase? I tape up the grey with blue tape, and the black with brown tape.

We are using single phase with two switches. To my mind it should be phase (brown) neutral (grey taped up blue), phase (grey taped up brown). That's what I do, but apparently it's wrong!

Make your mind up!

Earlier you said black taped blue, now you've said grey taped blue, and then grey taped blue and a second grey taped brown.
Which is it?

You are right that for single phase the only correct colour for live is brown, black and grey are not permitted and obviously neutral should be blue.

 

[shanky887614]

That's right, but why use 3 phase colours on single phase? I tape up the grey with blue tape, and the black with brown tape.

We are using single phase with two switches. To my mind it should be phase (brown) neutral (grey taped up blue), phase (grey taped up brown). That's what I do, but apparently it's wrong!

the way you do it is common sence though, anyone in the future could come along and figure it out straight

 

[Knobhead]

Conductor 1 - Red becomes brown
Conductor 2 - Yellow becomes black
Conductor 3 - Blue becomes grey

Why do people still have trouble getting it right after so many years of having these colours?

That's as maybe, it made no odds to our Albert. Come on, give him credit, he got one right.

 

[eddieboy]

So is the practice of wiring to phase colours still acceptable?

E.g if a lighting circuit is on L2 then all the line conductors would be black.

Or if it was on L3 then the lives would be gray.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Make your mind up!

Earlier you said black taped blue, now you've said grey taped blue, and then grey taped blue and a second grey taped brown.
Which is it?



You are right that for single phase the only correct colour for live is brown, black and grey are not permitted and obviously neutral should be blue.

Sorry Dave, edited that now! All those colours got me confused!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

So is the practice of wiring to phase colours still acceptable?

E.g if a lighting circuit is on L2 then all the line conductors would be black.

Or if it was on L3 then the lives would be gray.

No, they would be on their single phase colours. If emergency switched then the permanent live would be the brown core, and the switched live, the black with some brown tape on it, and the neutral would be the grey with some blue tape on it. I think.