Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade.

[oldtimer]

NO HANDBAGS....NO HANDBAGS??!!

LISTEN HERE...
we all have to pay for being on one of these schemes.....then one little upstart comes along and thinks the rules that society abides by are not for him....
i`m not mentioning names but he knows who he is and i can tell you something else n all....
i`v a good mind to get on to that scheme provider and tell em just whats goin on.....
why should i (and others) pay for scheme membership....then he comes along and does notifyable works.....that he aint noting...claims to be a scheme member...when he aint
christ....i bet he hasn`t even got public liability.....
so i think you can understand Marvo if i gets a bit browned off over it....

Even if you did report them no Scheme will throw them out why because they need the membership fee morals and ethics have nothing to do with it as the House of Commons enquiry into Part P said that the Schemies had a clear conflict of interests but amazingly never advised on how to tackle it

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I don't know who's with a scheme provider and who isn't, I don't know who's working under the table and who isn't and I also don't know who's certifying their work and who isn't. What I do know is if you're privy to info about someone doing something underhanded, illegal or immoral you're entitled to report them to an appropriate official body who can investigate and seek legal remedy. The forum isn't an appropriate body.

no...you damned rite it isn`t....which is why i`v not gone all the way here...
and he can thank fu&k i hav`t n all..
but i can assure you now i`m just an inch away from sortin this....
why the hell should i pay good money to operate ligit.....then he comes along claiming on a public forum that he is a scheme member.....when he isn`t....
no...its just not on....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Even if you did report them no Scheme will throw them out why because they need the membership fee morals and ethics have nothing to do with it as the House of Commons enquiry into Part P said that the Schemies had a clear conflict of interests but amazingly never advised on how to tackle it

old....the person in question is claiming openly on a public forum that he is a scheme member....when he isn`t.....
and you think they wont do owt about it.....

 

[stuartcourt]

old....the person in question is claiming openly on a public forum that he is a scheme member....when he isn`t.....
and you think they wont do owt about it.....

They dont like people using their name without paying, put more effort in hunting them down than they ever would improving the industry

 

[GLENNSPARK]

They dont like people using their name without paying, put more effort in hunting them down than they ever would improving the industry

unfortunately so...
but the bottom line here with me is i am paying money to these scams ....so i have a ligitimate right to use the name of the scam of my choosing to try and promote myself to prospective customers and to use it to try to generate interest....
I have paid these s!ags so i have the right to use their name as part of my services.......
so where does he get off then?....

 

[stuartcourt]

unfortunately so...
but the bottom line here with me is i am paying money to these scams ....so i have a ligitimate right to use the name of the scam of my choosing to try and promote myself to prospective customers and to use it to try to generate interest....
I have paid these s1ags so i have the right to use their name as part of my services.......
so where does he get off then?....

agree completely hate paying it but do. Not sure who you mean but would not want my boiler installed by a bloke pretending to be Gas Safe

 

[GLENNSPARK]

agree completely hate paying it but do. Not sure who you mean but would not want my boiler installed by a bloke pretending to be Gas Safe

he aint a gas man....
he`s an electrician....
good at blaggin...but not much else...

 

[stuartcourt]

ha ha No I mean if I called in a Gas Safe I would expect a Gas Safe bloke not a blagger

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i dont like these scams as much as the next man....
but what i dont like more is someone just ridin it....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

While many blame Part P there are others who are complicit in this destruction of a once proud and respected industry namely the training centres who are aided and abetted by the City & Guilds who allow people to take courses and exams where the pre requisite is the possession of other trade related C & G qualifications. How can people really be and be allowed to call themselves qualified or fully qualified when all they have passed is a 17th edition and 2391 exam.

Since the introduction of the term competent to replace qualified the quick training schemes have been allowed to redefine what training is needed to be considered an electrician and the part P schemes have colluded in this by accepting what were considered peripheral and additional qualifications to the C&G 2330 etc as the qualifications required along with a wedge of money to be accepted by the scheme

It would be interesting to see some figures on how many people have passed the 2330 exam in the last 5 - 10 years and how many have passed just the 2391 and the 2382 in a training centre

It is difficult to see a way back now unless the City & Guilds clampdown on those sitting the exams so there is a structure put back into training but this would upset the "I want it all and I want it now brigade" who have no time to train properly

and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....

 

[Knobhead]

I’m getting fed up with my own voice on this subject.

The only way for this trade to redeem it’s self is by a national register. It would take government intervention to do it.
A reasonable minimum level of qualifications before you are licensed to practice you’re trade.

It would kill the scams off over night. No more selling accreditation, if you’re not on the register you can not trade alone.

It will never happen, there would be a flood of Electrical Trainee’s queuing up at the job centre the next day.
Part “P” was an ill thought out knee jerk. It hasn’t raised standard, it’s another “cash cow” to be milked.

A national register works very well in other countries, why not here? Profiteering could have something to do with it. The scams and training organisation would be greasing politicians pockets to stop it.

The C&G needs a bomb under it along with the IET. Nothing but money grubbing leaches. Maintaining standards? All they are doing is maintaining their living standards.
The standard of examinations has been lowered to suit the pass rate.

Training is a farce as proved by the thread on the AM2 course. A three year old can play “join the dots!”


I’m retired from heavy engineering as are a lot of my counterparts, what is being done to replace us. Train more useless DI’s.
This country needs manufacturing not house building!


I was once proud of this industry, it makes me ashamed now.


If you’re upset with what I say you must be amongst the ones not qualified for a national register.

 

[stuartcourt]

or someone who was never any good at join the dots :cheesy:

 

[stuartcourt]

night all

 

[ipf]

I’m getting fed up with my own voice on this subject.

The only way for this trade to redeem it’s self is by a national register. It would take government intervention to do it.
A reasonable minimum level of qualifications before you are licensed to practice you’re trade.

It would kill the scams off over night. No more selling accreditation, if you’re not on the register you can not trade alone.

It will never happen, there would be a flood of Electrical Trainee’s queuing up at the job centre the next day.
Part “P” was an ill thought out knee jerk. It hasn’t raised standard, it’s another “cash cow” to be milked.

A national register works very well in other countries, why not here? Profiteering could have something to do with it. The scams and training organisation would be greasing politicians pockets to stop it.

The C&G needs a bomb under it along with the IET. Nothing but money grubbing leaches. Maintaining standards? All they are doing is maintaining their living standards.
The standard of examinations has been lowered to suit the pass rate.

Training is a farce as proved by the thread on the AM2 course. A three year old can play “join the dots!”


I’m retired from heavy engineering as are a lot of my counterparts, what is being done to replace us. Train more useless DI’s.
This country needs manufacturing not house building!


I was once proud of this industry, it makes me ashamed now.


If you’re upset with what I say you must be amongst the ones not qualified for a national register.

Very true. But most of the leaches aren't even fit for domestic work.

Makes me ashamed, too.

 

[Geordie Spark]

and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....

It's dEspicable Glenn ....... with an "e" ........it's important to use the correct terminology!!

 

[Knobhead]

and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....

Terminology is a very moot point.

Unfortunately gone are the days of the examination adjudicators knowing the subject.

They would check you’re calculation method, give you an extra point if you got it right.

Engineering principals was a swine of an exam, add advanced mathematics, test methods and reliability, technical drawing. All in the space of a fortnight!

I felt like I’d been run over by a steam roller!

 

[Octopus]

its just the scenareo thats all...
the scams inform HMRC about any notifyable jobs....probably half the reason they were set up in the first place.....
but as you says Murdoch...its them thats doing cash in hand stuff, thats not certing their work and that claim their registered with a scheme.....when I know they damned well arn`t....they are the ones who are pisin me of...
you know who you are....[/QUOTE]

Time to call HMRC???

 

[Tridentsystems]

My scheme assessor was a retired plumber

 

[baldsparkies]

So the year is 1972. You are working for a large engineering company who have there own electrical department.
They take you on as an apprentice and you work along side time served qualified electricians, who are many years your senior.
You attend day release at college and cover a C&G 236 three year course in electrical intallations. At the end of that time you have covered a wealth of practical experience, mainly by men you respect, and know the trade profficiently.
You decide to attend the C certificate course two evenings a week for a further two years and recieve technicians status.
Later in life other courses come up 16th edition, 17th edition, and then theres the 2391.
As a JIB member you apply for and recieve the JIB gold card at approved status.
And then theres your schem providor saying your the qualifying officer.
Your responsibilities through the years have also resulted in a JIB platinum sight managers card.
40 years later, and you your asking yourself what was it all about ??
Because after all that your not a Part P electrician.
Just sharing where and what I am. And wondering even now what makes these guys qualified ???????????

 

[GLENNSPARK]

its just the scenareo thats all...
the scams inform HMRC about any notifyable jobs....probably half the reason they were set up in the first place.....
but as you says Murdoch...its them thats doing cash in hand stuff, thats not certing their work and that claim their registered with a scheme.....when I know they damned well arn`t....they are the ones who are pisin me of...
you know who you are....[/QUOTE]

Time to call HMRC???

i`m that close Murdoch...i really am....
and like i says...i doubt he`s got any public liability either....
carrying out works in/on other folk`s property without the necessary insurance to cover it if it all goes arse up....grrrrr..