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yeah well i know that working to one will/should demonstrate compliance with the other...but the point i was making is it will be the EAWR1989 that has the final say in court...not BS7671.....thats used to show compliance with EAWR.....

I beg to differ, it would be the Judge that has the final say;)

If a prosecutor appoints a person that can tie you up in knots with BS7671 then it probably wouldn't even get as far as EAWR as you would have had to have explained why you have NOT complied with these regs.

In my opinion, if someone knew that much about all of the Regs they wouldn't be on the tools. They would be getting paid very good money supporting prosecutors in court.

I still reckon anyone who wishes not to work to BS7671 is either, VERY intelligent or very silly :thumbsup
 
I beg to differ, it would be the Judge that has the final say;)

If a prosecutor appoints a person that can tie you up in knots with BS7671 then it probably wouldn't even get as far as EAWR as you would have had to have explained why you have NOT complied with these regs.

In my opinion, if someone knew that much about all of the Regs they wouldn't be on the tools. They would be getting paid very good money supporting prosecutors in court.

I still reckon anyone who wishes not to work to BS7671 is either, VERY intelligent or very silly :thumbsup
BS7671 is a guidance note....thats all..it aint cast in stone....but i agree you would be a proper emptyhead not to work to it.....
 
and as far as `judge pickles` is concerned.....well he can just go and chew leaves as far as i`m concerned....
 
IF you've not worked to the regs then you will have to explain why and defend that it complies with or is better than what BS7671 states.

As far as TT system go, you wouldn't have much difficulty in bettering what's stated in BS7671 and it's Guidance Notes...
They are so low and wishy washy that anyone that that doesn't meet them, deserves to be in the dock!! lol!!!
 
On a final note, If the BS value was a realistic value, and not taken from the lowest denominator, i might be able to a point, agree with you. But while it remains at this ridiculous and totally useless 200 ohm value (a mockery in itself), in all honesty, i can't!!
200 ohms is indeed a useless value, Yank code NEC says 20 ohms or less, if not
drive a second ground rod [minimum 5/8" by 8'] a minimum distance of 6' away.
think of this: to trip a 20 amp ckt at 120 volts, you want your ground rod 6 ohms or less. My boss proved this, he drove a ground rod with about 10 ohms resistance, wired it right to a 20a breaker, turned the breaker on, it didnt trip because it carried about 12a. most Yank jobs, we drive two ground rods, 5/8" x 8', separated 8' apart,
so we dont have to ohm test them.
 
200 ohms is indeed a useless value, Yank code NEC says 20 ohms or less, if not
drive a second ground rod [minimum 5/8" by 8'] a minimum distance of 6' away.
think of this: to trip a 20 amp ckt at 120 volts, you want your ground rod 6 ohms or less. My boss proved this, he drove a ground rod with about 10 ohms resistance, wired it right to a 20a breaker, turned the breaker on, it didnt trip because it carried about 12a. most Yank jobs, we drive two ground rods, 5/8" x 8', separated 8' apart,
so we dont have to ohm test them.

Why would you not want to test the final Ra of any TT system you have installed??

Never quite understood why there is this lack of testing within the NEC as a whole.

Surely as professional electricians, you would want to know the overall condition of any installation, before you walk away from it!!! ...Yes??

At least you Yanks don't use the 3' twigs that have become popular in the UK, and use decent sized rods. The minimum, or normal distance between rods would be 1.5X the buried depth of the rods, just to make sure that spheres of influence don't over lap, and each rod will be fulfilling their roles, to their full potential.
 
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Eng54 ,
in the USA , testing is considered an after-thought and minor issue , most sparks dont even possess test gear from what i know and rely on the county buildngs engineer to "sign off" work after a resonably thorough inspection.
as for I.R. & earth loop tests - just foreign concepts lol.
 
Eng54 ,
in the USA , testing is considered an after-thought and minor issue , most sparks dont even possess test gear from what i know and rely on the county buildngs engineer to "sign off" work after a resonably thorough inspection.
as for I.R. & earth loop tests - just foreign concepts lol.

There is, it certainly seems to be a much lower requirement of testing required within the NEC 70 than compared with European standards. Not sure if the Canadians codes are the same or not...

Never once have i seen a MFT or even a ELI tester in the hands of a Yank electrician on any of the projects i've been on. Generally its an Amp clamp, multi meter, volt stick, and if your lucky an IR tester... Even the GFI testers are generally of these plug in type things with a pass or fail indicator, though they may now use a little more sophisticated tester, than the last ones i last saw used... lol!!
 
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To be fair , their inspections by an independant authority , even on domestic installs , is much more strict than the UK "self notification" process , they just dont get bogged down in recording pages of numbers like us brits.
i can see some benefits of the american system.
 
I was trying to say how our TT grounding standards are higher, not how our testing standards are lower. But yes it is true.

I have no problem agreeing with you there 1capybara, you can't help but provide a stable TT system every time, with the use of ''Proper'' proven earth rods....
 
There is, it certainly seems to be a much lower requirement of testing required within the NEC 70 than compared with European standards. Not sure if the Canadians codes are the same or not...

Never once have i seen a MFT or even a ELI tester in the hands of a Yank electrician on any of the projects i've been on. Generally its an Amp clamp, multi meter, volt stick, and if your lucky an IR tester... Even the GFI testers are generally of these plug in type things with a pass or fail indicator, though they may now use a little more sophisticated tester, than the last ones i last saw used... lol!!
if you look on ebay theres for sale these thingys called `circuit analyzers`....now, these test ground fault circuit interupters......and its 15mA for these as far as i know...
here:
TT and 'stability' {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
 
if you look on ebay theres for sale these thingys called `circuit analyzers`....now, these test ground fault circuit interupters......and its 15mA for these as far as i know...
here:
TT and 'stability' {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net

That is the very the type of unit i was referring/implying too, but that unit you have shown here is a European model going by the plug top attached to it... so will be for 30mA RCD's. The American units are normally rated for 6mA RCD's....
 
BTW, out here in the desert, we put in ground rings, 2 AWG buried 30'' minmum
[35mm2 buried 75cm minimum] bec the earth is too dry to conduct electric. and we use 10' x 3/4" [3m x 20mm] ground rods which have more surface contact than the legal minimum size 8' x 5/8".
 
BTW, out here in the desert, we put in ground rings, 2 AWG buried 30'' minmum
[35mm2 buried 75cm minimum] bec the earth is too dry to conduct electric. and we use 10' x 3/4" [3m x 20mm] ground rods which have more surface contact than the legal minimum size 8' x 5/8".

Desert conditions is the perfect time to use 100mm bore holes filled with Bentonite to drop those rods into....
Bentonite being both hygroscopic and a conductive medium, also means an easily maintained TT system.
Used a very similar installation on a passive cathodic protection system in Libya, to protect the 7m X 4m buried pipes at susceptible locations on the Great Man Made River Project. Only we used a 4m string of Magnesium blocks instead of the usual earth rods....
 

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