UPS spec - help required.

[DPG]

Morning all, and happy Friday!

I've been asked my advice on what UPS would be suitable to run an ICT machine (ICT=In Circuit Test, it's machine that tests electronic PCB assemblies).

Now it is fed from a standard 3 phase supply, but I am confused a little by the rating plate - I've attached a picture (hopefully!) of the plate. Looks like it will need a standard 3 phase UPS rated at 35A, but the lower part of the spec plate shows 220V 18A, even though the 3 phase box is ticked.

Any thoughts? Apologies if my inexperience on these things is showing!

Cheers,
Daz

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[LeeH]

Yeah, that's confusing.

Can you get them to run it up and put a clamp on around each line? (Or how many phases you find when you open it up.)

 

[LeeH]

....and the last time I had to spec a UPS I just called APC UK. Got them to do the donkey work.

That's some serious cash though, especially if the machine needs to finish its full cycle. Could be a long run time at high load.

 

[SparkyChick]

I'd say the top half of the plate shows possibilities and maximums whilst the bottom half shows 'as configured'.

But I agree with @LeeH clamp it to confirm and get APC doing the donkey work for you. I've found them very helpful in the past when I've had to source server room UPSs.

 

[DPG]

....and the last time I had to spec a UPS I just called APC UK. Got them to do the donkey work.

That's some serious cash though, especially if the machine needs to finish its full cycle. Could be a long run time at high load.

Yeah I imagine it's going to cost some. Will get them to ask APC I think. Cheers.

 

[UNG]

At those sort of loads it might be a UPS and backup generator depending on the run time and resilience required

 

[DPG]

I'd say the top half of the plate shows possibilities and maximums whilst the bottom half shows 'as configured'.

But I agree with @LeeH clamp it to confirm and get APC doing the donkey work for you. I've found them very helpful in the past when I've had to source server room UPSs.

I think you are probably right - didn't expect such a big difference in the 2 figures though. I will get them to see what APC say - should be easy enough for them eh!

Cheers,
Daz

 

[DPG]

At those sort of loads it might be a UPS and backup generator depending on the run time and resilience required

There's a backup genny but the machine drops out and has to go through a re-start process before the genny can start up. Often get short duration drop-outs (a bit out in the sticks!). UPS wouldn't need to run for more than 10 minutes I reckon.

 

[SparkyChick]

This may be interesting reading...

Agilent E1135C PDU Operating and Service Manual

 

[DPG]

Already read it It still didn't clarify the spec plate completely though, unless I didn't read it properley!

Daz

 

[SparkyChick]

I only skimmed it, but I didn't see anything about the plate either.

 

[UNG]

There's a backup genny but the machine drops out and has to go through a re-start process before the genny can start up. Often get short duration drop-outs (a bit out in the sticks!). UPS wouldn't need to run for more than 10 minutes I reckon.

Changes the OP a bit then, having said that is the generator man enough to run what is connected to it seen a lot of sites expand beyond the generators capability and one of them was a hospital

 

[DPG]

Changes the OP a bit then, having said that is the generator man enough to run what is connected to it seen a lot of sites expand beyond the generators capability and one of them was a hospital

Yes, the genny is up to the job and has a suitavbly large fuel reservoir.
Daz

 

[Pete999]

Morning all, and happy Friday!

I've been asked my advice on what UPS would be suitable to run an ICT machine (ICT=In Circuit Test, it's machine that tests electronic PCB assemblies).

Now it is fed from a standard 3 phase supply, but I am confused a little by the rating plate - I've attached a picture (hopefully!) of the plate. Looks like it will need a standard 3 phase UPS rated at 35A, but the lower part of the spec plate shows 220V 18A, even though the 3 phase box is ticked.

Any thoughts? Apologies if my inexperience on these things is showing!

Cheers,
Daz

View attachment 35599

View attachment 35600

Are talking about a "no break" setup?

 

[DPG]

Are talking about a "no break" setup?

Yes.

 

[DPG]

It doesn't tolerate 'unclean' mains failures and has suffered before causing production down time (£££).
I've also suggested maybe some sort of power conditioning/surge arrestor.

Daz

 

[westward10]

It doesn't tolerate 'unclean' mains failures and has suffered before causing production down time (£££).
I've also suggested maybe some sort of power conditioning/surge arrestor.

Daz

You require a "floating" system which means it will be permanently using the ups output so there is no loss on mains failure.

 

[Pete999]

Yes.

Then the single phase element may be the input from the standby set

 

[DPG]

You require a "floating" system which means it will be permanently using the ups output so there is no loss on mains failure.

Yes indeed. An on-line system.

 

[DPG]

Then the single phase element may be the input from the standby set

No single phase input. Machine is configured for 3 phase supply.

 

[Pete999]

Then the single phase element may be the input from the standby set

No single phase input. Machine is configured for 3 phase supply.

Right do have a input configuration diagram you could share with us? some ups have two inputs mains and standby as in the case of a no break setup

 

[Pete999]

No single phase input. Machine is configured for 3 phase supply.

The one UPs I was struggling to recal was an Emerson AP series AP 410 10 KVA 415 15KVA and so on these machines utilised a 3 phase input mains supply as well as a single phase input which could come from a standby set another UPs output or maybe a safe supply, for some reason which I can't recall why you could add links to take a 1 phase supply from the 3 phase input.
These machines could be wired in series using the output of 1 unit as the single phase supply for the next one, this could be as many machines as you require for supply to continue, UPS 1 feeds UPS2 and so on.

 

[Pete999]

Yes.

You said in one of your earlier posts that the Standby usually takes about 10 mins to run up causing a short break in the supply, this is not a "no break set up" with a NBS you would have NO loss of supply to your equipment.

 

[DPG]

The one UPs I was struggling to recal was an Emerson AP series AP 410 10 KVA 415 15KVA and so on these machines utilised a 3 phase input mains supply as well as a single phase input which could come from a standby set another UPs output or maybe a safe supply, for some reason which I can't recall why you could add links to take a 1 phase supply from the 3 phase input.
These machines could be wired in series using the output of 1 unit as the single phase supply for the next one, this could be as many machines as you require for supply to continue, UPS 1 feeds UPS2 and so on.

Sounds like a complex beasty! No, what is required here is a 'normal' 3 phase UPS which the machine will be powered through all the time, and will carry on supplying power when the mains fails. Just until the main genny kicks in - only needs around 30 seconds.

The only issue I had was the rating plate - it initially confused me. I think, as mentioned by a couple of people above, that it is giving maximum ratings on the top half, but the bottom half is either a normal running figure or the current drawn with the machine configured in the way it is.

Daz

 

[Pete999]

Speak to EMERSON they will be able to help, cant recall where they are but I'm sure if you google Emerson you could find an address email etc,

 

[DPG]

Cheers Pete, appreciated.

 

[Pete999]

Cheers Pete, appreciated.

They more than likely have an updated style of UPs than the ones I used, as time has elapsed it was about 12 tears ago. The AP400 series were a joy to work with simple to install and very successful imo

 

[Andy-1960]

I recently installed some 3ph on-line UPS units in a water treatement works to keep a dosing pump system running in the event of power failure. I used a company called Reillo and the units were rated at 10KVA each. They worked like a charm.
The units are a MCT10-S1. They will also deliver to site, position and commission once installed which I think is well worth the money. (They weigh about 180kg!)
They will cost about £3500 all in, so not cheap but they work.
Reillo are on 01978 729297

 

[DPG]

Cheers Andy.