Who's right? Hopefully me!

[Drew34]

Yesterday whilst doing my practical assessment (2365 level 2) I caused a bit of a stink.
I was working on a couple of 2 way switches with singles through pvc conduit.
As the training centre boss walked past he started over me having blue cable at the switches.
He kept saying 'why have you got neutrals?'
My response was ' I haven't. I'm going to sleeve them brown. Surly it's not neutral if it's not doing what a neutral should do it's just a cable until terminated.'
My tutor had no problem with this method.
Maybe I should have just smiled and pleased him.
Was I right?

 

[Pete999]

Didn’t think it mattered really L and L1 are identified as live terminals

It would matter if you had a 2 or 3 gang switch and needed to loop the L to the other switches.

 

[Ian1981]

It would matter if you had a 2 or 3 gang switch and needed to loop the L to the other switches.

but then I wouldn’t have used twin brown as my switch would be mains fed with just a switch live and neutral to the light

 

[Pete999]

but then I wouldn’t have used twin brown as my switch would be mains fed with just a switch live and neutral to the light

Perhaps next time you could explain your reasoning with a little more detail, that would have avoided any misunderstanding.

 

[telectrix]

i prefer to use 3c/E for switch drops id new works. then you have L, N, S/L at both light/s and switch/es. makes it easy for retro fitting smart switches etc.

 

[Ian1981]

I thought it was obvious if I had mains at the light then I’d use twin brown at the switch and it wouldn’t matter which way they connected to the light switch

 

[ipf]

Didn’t think it mattered really L or C and L1 are identified as live terminals

What if you've got a point in a lighting circuit not identifying a sw L?
Bleedin' 'ell....easy for all these DIY ers.

 

[Pete999]

I thought it was obvious if I had mains at the light then I’d use twin brown at the switch and it wouldn’t matter which way they connected to the light switch

Would that be a single gang or multi ganged switch?

 

[Ian1981]

Would that be a single gang or multi ganged switch?

Light switch would indicate 1 switch.
If I said switches then it would be more than 1
One gang I mean

 

[Ian1981]

Deleted

 

[Ian1981]

What if you've got a point in a lighting circuit not identifying a sw L?
Bleedin' 'ell....easy for all these DIY ers.

Sorry I don’t follow you?

 

[ipf]

Sorry I don’t follow you?

What's the general scenario when a diyer removes a light fitting, changes it and then can't understand what's wrong?

 

[Ian1981]

What's the general scenario when a diyer removes a light fitting, changes it and then can't understand what's wrong?

They come on this forum?

 

[ipf]

They come on this forum?

Been known to, for sure.

 

[Toneyz]

IMO if the OP, who as it seems, has received conflicting advice, the training center's usually have some affiliation to a CPS member, example NICEIC approved, that sort of thing.
If he get failed for taking the advice from his Tutor, and it proves out to be the wrong advice, as in this case, I feel his recourse will be to contact the CPS and air his complaint to them, whether he will get anywhere is debatable, you have to agree to that surely, or maybe you don't.

I see where your coming from now regarding the affiliation, I think it is mostly with the NICEIC and C& G some aren't though. In my day and maybe yours you only had the FoE run/funded (in part) by the Departement of Education you didn't get all these commercial education providers. I can see the point that the training centre would want to see the student installing as taught but sleaving brown complies with the regs.

 

[Pete999]

I see where your coming from now regarding the affiliation, I think it is mostly with the NICEIC and C& G some aren't though. In my day and maybe yours you only had the FoE run/funded (in part) by the Departement of Education you didn't get all these commercial education providers. I can see the point that the training centre would want to see the student installing as taught but sleaving brown complies with the regs.

Deleted

 

[westward10]

They come on this forum?

 

[Risteard]

the only reason we use blue with a brown sleeve is when using T/E where there's no option. in ROI, they use twin brown for switch cables.

In all of Ireland twin brown is used, although in the south it is prohibited to oversleeve.

 

[Risteard]

the only reason we use blue with a brown sleeve is when using T/E where there's no option. in ROI, they use twin brown for switch cables.

In all of Ireland twin brown is used, although in the south it is prohibited to oversleeve.

 

[AJshep]

Never seen twin brown here in the South of England. However used to see twin Red quite a bit.
Serves a purpose, but it's a pain in the bum when you accidentally wire a complete lighting circuit in the stuff.

 

[Risteard]

It would matter if you had a 2 or 3 gang switch and needed to loop the L to the other switches.

Just connect one of the browns to the cpc and bell it out. It really doesn't present a problem. Worth remembering that bs7671 expresses a preference for conductors to be identifiable throughout their length and not just at the terminations.

If someone did it with a single I would expect them to rewire it properly.

 

[123]

@Risteard doesn't the Republic of Ireland have it now that in T&E the CPC is both sleeved throughout and of the same size as the Live Conductors?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

@Risteard doesn't the Republic of Ireland have it now that in T&E the CPC is both sleeved throughout and of the same size as the Live Conductors?

I believe that is the case for continental Europe.

 

[Ian1981]

SO we are lagging behind again are we?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

An incorrectly pulled blue single sleeved and used as a line is very shoddy in my book and I would not permit it on new work at all. Forgive my unfamiliarity with T+E (I only work on projects that are in steel con, SWA and pyro) isn't twin brown usually made with one core insulated with solid brown, and the other brown-skinned white insulation, so you can tell the difference during installation? I've certainly seen red done that way.

Continental Europe does generally use an equal gauge insulated CPC but it's normally in a round cable rather than flat. Aus & NZ also have their CPC like that but the cable is flat like ours. USA T+E has bare CPC.

 

[westward10]

I have some twin brown and there is nothing to distinguish the core by insulation variant.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

An incorrectly pulled blue single sleeved and used as a line is very shoddy in my book and I would not permit it on new work at all. Forgive my unfamiliarity with T+E (I only work on projects that are in steel con, SWA and pyro) isn't twin brown usually made with one core insulated with solid brown, and the other brown-skinned white insulation, so you can tell the difference during installation? I've certainly seen red done that way.

Continental Europe does generally use an equal gauge insulated CPC but it's normally in a round cable rather than flat. Aus & NZ also have their CPC like that but the cable is flat like ours. USA T+E has bare CPC.

I have half a roll of Portuguese flat cable in my garage.
Not seen twin brown, but the twin red I’ve seen had nothing to distinguish the cores.

 

[123]

Sometimes the browns are slightly different shades...good luck with that in good light let alone poor light. Have seen them as Lucien says also.

Last time I used Twin Brown it was an incorrect delivery from wholesalers and I wired a lighting circuit with it

 

[Risteard]

@Risteard doesn't the Republic of Ireland have it now that in T&E the CPC is both sleeved throughout and of the same size as the Live Conductors?

That's correct. The implementation date was the 5th September gone. It's roughly 30% dearer than BS T&E for IS T&E.

 

[Pete999]

That's correct. The implementation date was the 5th September gone. It's roughly 30% dearer than BS T&E for IS T&E.

Would save on green and yellow sleeving, And no more multi cpcs crammed into 1 length of sleeving

 

[Risteard]

I wired a lighting circuit with it

My old boss did that once. Sorry to say I laughed.