New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the mains fusebox?

[brianmoooore]

You could add a second box that is big enough replace the fuse box, but have the spare ways blanked off. Then, in the future, move the circuits from old box to new.

I was just going to post something similar, but I'll repeat littlespark's post instead.
The existing fusebox is in a position that is unacceptable to comply with current regs and recommendations so mount the a new one of sufficient capacity to serve the whole house in an acceptable position, preferably moving the incoming supply to feed it, and then feeding the existing board temporarily from the new, via a RCD or RCBO. If this results in this RCD tripping, then that just proves that a part of the original wiring is in a dangerous condition, and obviously this will need to be addressed immediately.
Some might question connecting the whole original board as a 'final circuit' from the new board, if this 'circuit' does not comply with modern regs., but this is where I consider a qualified electrician should be able to over rule the letter of the regs with his expertise.

 

[Ell4848]

^ you're right there ,I shouldnt have called 1st fix a rewire , it may just be extending kitchen circuits as you say

In my world when a builder gives an all inclusive price , he's included his electricians price plus a markup

At the dodgier end of the business some builders will be hiring unqualified guys to boost their overall profit, never really heard of this with respectable builders

Guys,
the builders electrician will be doing 1st & 2nd fix electrics in the kitchen & changing the fusebox, however he said they can't issue a certificate without testing the rest of the house and because he's only doing that its very difficult to get a certificate

Am I able to at least get a minor works certificate? Doesn't changing fusebox require a certificate & building control?

 

[SJD]

Yes, changing a fuse box requires a certificate and notification to building control. A minor works certificate is not appropriate for a new consumer unit / fuse box.

All circuits on the new unit should be tested to ensure they are satisfactory for continued service (sorry, I've not read all 50+ posts, so don't understand why that is not being done).

EDIT: Are you sure the builders electrician is a member of a CPS and able to notify the work. It just occurred to me he could be looking for an excuse not to because he is unable to notify?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Guys,
the builders electrician will be doing 1st & 2nd fix electrics in the kitchen & changing the fusebox, however he said they can't issue a certificate without testing the rest of the house and because he's only doing that its very difficult to get a certificate

Am I able to at least get a minor works certificate? Doesn't changing fusebox require a certificate & building control?

Changing fusebox requires full testing of all circuits. A full EIC certificate must be issued, and building control notification.

GET ANOTHER ELECTRICIAN TO DO THIS WORK

 

[Ell4848]

Yes, changing a fuse box requires a certificate and notification to building control. A minor works certificate is not appropriate for a new consumer unit / fuse box.

All circuits on the new unit should be tested to ensure they are satisfactory for continued service (sorry, I've not read all 50+ posts, so don't understand why that is not being done).

EDIT: Are you sure the builders electrician is a member of a CPS and able to notify the work. It just occurred to me he could be looking for an excuse not to because he is unable to notify?

 

[Ell4848]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

 

[SJD]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

Either (a) the electrician tests all the house and issues an EIC plus notifies the work, or (b) you get someone else to change the consumer unit who can test all the house etc.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

My previous post tells you all you need to know. It is as simple as that. If the electrician won't provide this, you have 2 choices:

1 - Accept that you are taking a gamble by using an electrician that won't issue proper certification, and will not carry out compliant work.

2 - GET SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THE WORK

 

[Ell4848]

Either (a) the electrician tests all the house and issues an EIC plus notifies the work, or (b) you get someone else to change the consumer unit who can test all the house etc.

If we get another electrician to do the fusebox & the builders later add to the circuit how does that work? Would i need another certificate for added circuits or can their electrician work with a fusebox installed by another electrician,?

 

[SJD]

If we get another electrician to do the fusebox & the builders later add to the circuit how does that work? Would i need another certificate for added circuits or can their electrician work with a fusebox installed by another electrician,?

A certificate is required for any new circuit, the bulders electrician should be able to supply that - covering just the new circuit(s). If not, then he should not be doing the work!

And yes, I often install a consumer unit and new circuits are added later by someone else, e.g. for a new kitchen.

EDIT again: Are you really sure the electrician is still registered. I was talking to my CPS assessor yesterday, it seems many contractors have just 'disappeared' over the last 18 months, presumably because they no longer had the funds to continue their scheme membership.

 

[DPG]

@Electrics - have you changed your username from 'Camoelectric' ?

 

[nicebutdim]

@Electrics - have you changed your username from 'Camoelectric' ?

He has - took me some time to put it together.

 

[Ell4848]

Does the fusebox need to be changed before or after the kitchen installation?

 

[SJD]

If I recall, there will be new circuits for the kitchen, so it would be better to change the fusebox first, so the kitchen electrician has a new consumer unit to connect his circuits into. Otherwise he/she might just leave the cable ends dangling for someone else to connect later. (And might even use it as an excuse not to provide a certiifcate.)

 

[Ell4848]

It will be just a new plug socket and the cooker will be moved approximately 50cm to the left side

 

[Ell4848]

Hi Guys

We decided on rewiring in kitchen with its own fusebox

The electrician did the first fix stage and is coming back next week for the fusebox and second fix. I forgot to mention to him about the light, its going to be the same length batton strip light just a newer one. They are starting the plastering tomorrow including skimming the ceiling etc

Is this going to be a problem or can he just change the light over with the new one after the plastering is done
.thank you

 

[DPG]

Hi Guys

We decided on rewiring in kitchen with its own fusebox

The electrician did the first fix stage and is coming back next week for the fusebox and second fix. I forgot to mention to him about the light, its going to be the same length batton strip light just a newer one. They are starting the plastering tomorrow including skimming the ceiling etc

Is this going to be a problem or can he just change the light over with the new one after the plastering is done
.thank you

You need to speak to him to be honest. But you don't want to skim round the existing fitting and then change it.

 

[Ell4848]

You need to speak to him to be honest. But you don't want to skim round the existing fitting and then change it.

We're not changing the fitting just the light itself inside, the batton. I dont know how this works so I don't know if he has to change the wiring because of the new fusebox he is putting in next week

 

[Ell4848]

We're not changing the fitting just the light itself inside, the batton. I dont know how this works so I don't know if he has to change the wiring because of the new fusebox he is putting in next week

Basically the light shape will be the same its a long batton kind of light

 

[Ell4848]

Oh its the fitting. Does he need to rewire or can it be changed over. Can the plasterers work around it

 

[littlespark]

So the kitchen light will be on the old wiring, instead of being on the new fuse box?

Probably better that way so there is light when the new box is being worked on.

 

[DPG]

So the kitchen light will be on the old wiring, instead of being on the new fuse box?

Probably better that way so there is light when the new box is being worked on.

I took it that it would be on the kitchen supply, but the cable needed replacing. Having said that, I'm confused now.

OP, I think you should make sure your sparky and plasterer are both working to the same plan.

 

[Ell4848]

I took it that it would be on the kitchen supply, but the cable needed replacing. Having said that, I'm confused now.

OP, I think you should make sure your sparky and plasterer are both working to the same plan.

The fusebox will be in a cupboard next to the kitchen. He hasn't done anything with the wiring for the main light does this have to be on the new fusebox or can he simply change the fitting after the plastering is done. Its the same length and design just a modern one

 

[pc1966]

The fusebox will be in a cupboard next to the kitchen. He hasn't done anything with the wiring for the main light does this have to be on the new fusebox or can he simply change the fitting after the plastering is done. Its the same length and design just a modern one

Assuming the wire is in good condition then it is fine just to replace the baton light (presumably with a new LED style).

 

[Ell4848]

Assuming the wire is in good condition then it is fine just to replace the baton light (presumably with a new LED style).

With a very similar fitting too? It won't affect the plastering?

 

[DPG]

With a very similar fitting too? It won't affect the plastering?

Surely the light fitting won't be fitted on the ceiling while the plastering is being done? Is that what you mean - the plasterer will plaster around the fitting?

 

[Ell4848]

Surely the light fitting won't be fitted on the ceiling while the plastering is being done? Is that what you mean - the plasterer will plaster around the fitting?

What i mean is if they plaster around the old fitting then replace the new one which is the same length and width do you think the plasterers can do that . And new wiring won't be needed for this. He has done first fix electrics elsewhere in the kitchen and added new sockets etc

 

[nicebutdim]

What i mean is if they plaster around the old fitting then replace the new one which is the same length and width do you think the plasterers can do that . And new wiring won't be needed for this. He has done first fix electrics elsewhere in the kitchen and added new sockets etc

Get the electrician involved well before any plastering takes place.

 

[DPG]

Get the electrician involved well before any plastering takes place.

I can't see the sense in having a nice freshly plastered ceiling but plastering around a light fitting which you don't even want.

Am I missing something? Please someone tell me if I am.

 

[Ell4848]

I can't see the sense in having a nice freshly plastered ceiling but plastering around a light fitting which you don't even want.

Am I missing something? Please someone tell me if I am.

Its going to be replaced with an identical one

 

[DPG]

Its going to be replaced with an identical one

I know. So take it down before the plastering!

What if the plaster gets damaged while you're trying to remove it?

Why why why why oh why etc etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

There's also the assumption that the existing cable is fine. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't - no one knows, so get the electrician in and let them decide before plastering the ceiling. Chances are they can also leave some temporary lighting arrangement that allows a decent finish on the new ceiling.

 

[DPG]

There's also the assumption that the existing cable is fine. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't - no one knows, so get the electrician in and let them decide before plastering the ceiling. Chances are they can also leave some temporary lighting arrangement that allows a decent finish on the new ceiling.

I'm waiting to see the plasterers face when he does a perfect finish around this light and then someone walks up and takes it down.

 

[timhoward]

If you ask the electrician nicely they may be willing to pop around and take it down for you.
Some plasterers I know are confident enough to remove a light fitting while they work so you might get lucky.

Get the electrician involved well before any plastering takes place.

Agree, the wisdom of posting on this forum at 4pm today when the problem was identified instead of contacting the electrician is a little bit debatable!
It does make a refreshing change that a new kitchen doesn't automatically mean 8 downlights though!

 

[pc1966]

As above folk say, get the old light off BEFORE the plastering is done. Then the new one up.

The point about like-for-like replacement (so here, similar baton light) is that does not require the circuit to be brought up to recent regs, so fine on the old main fuse box assuming the cable is OK and long enough, etc.

If you were having additional lights fitted then it should meet the current regs and that usually means on RCD protection as generally speaking the cable won't be guaranteed to be deeper than 50mm from any surface where it is hidden (there is more to it than that, but usually that is the deciding factor).

 

[OnlQQker]

builder may be genuine and has a registered spark on hand. not all builders are rogues. i've worked with some good, some bad.

I worked for a builder many moons ago, and when the electrician was off site he used a roll of the sparks 2.5 cable to pull up a bucket load of cement to the roof. Then wound it back up and said nothing.

 

[Ell4848]

I know. So take it down before the plastering!

What if the plaster gets damaged while you're trying to remove it?

Why why why why oh why etc etc.

I worked for a builder many moons ago, and when the electrician was off site he used a roll of the sparks 2.5 cable to pull up a bucket load of cement to the roof. Then wound it back up and said nothing.

I told the builder and he said its fine. So I guess they know what they are doing. I also read on other forums that if they bring the fixture down slightly they can plaster

 

[DPG]

I told the builder and he said its fine. So I guess they know what they are doing. I also read on other forums that if they bring the fixture down slightly they can plaster

So they're going to have to lower this unwanted light fitting down before they plaster?

Sorry to bang on but I just don't get it.

 

[westward10]

Never ask a builder for advice use the electrician. The chances of the new fitting being identical to match the unplastered part are zero, it needs removing prior to plastering.

 

[DPG]

Never ask a builder for advice use the electrician. The chances of the new fitting being identical to match the unplastered part are zero, it needs removing prior to plastering.

I knew Westy would be along eventually with the answer

 

[brianmoooore]

I worked for a builder many moons ago, and when the electrician was off site he used a roll of the sparks 2.5 cable to pull up a bucket load of cement to the roof. Then wound it back up and said nothing.

No reason for the sparks to complain. He left a 100m reel, and got back a 105m reel.

 

[Ell4848]

No reason for the sparks to complain. He left a 100m reel, and got back a 105m reel.

Yeah I think the plasterer is going to remove it while they do it. They're a big building firm and have every trade on hand. They do huge extensions and major refurbishments so the director said it will be OK I told him whats what and he is confident its fine

 

[DPG]

Yeah I think the plasterer is going to remove it while they do it. They're a big building firm and have every trade on hand. They do huge extensions and major refurbishments so the director said it will be OK I told him whats what and he is confident its fine

So after all these posts and comments about plastering around the light, you now say they are actually going to take it down before they plaster.

Could you not have mentioned this about 15 posts up?

 

[nicebutdim]

Yeah I think the plasterer is going to remove it while they do it. They're a big building firm and have every trade on hand. They do huge extensions and major refurbishments so the director said it will be OK I told him whats what and he is confident its fine

I'll just leave a link to this salient comment:

New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the mains fusebox? > Page 3 > on Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums

Find New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the mains fusebox? Advice and Help. How-to New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the mains fusebox? in the UK Electrical Forum advice boards on Electricians Forums. New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the...

www.electriciansforums.net

...and again question the wisdom of seeking advice that you fully intend to ignore, if it doesn't affirm a decision you've already taken.

 

[telectrix]

OP is fromLondon.have to make allowances. they don't know their arses from their elbows south of Birmingham. ( just look at that ridiculous round tent by the river and that Shard thing that looks like a RGB strip installed bya plumber).).

 

[Ell4848]

So after all these posts and comments about plastering around the light, you now say they are actually going to take it down before they plaster.

Could you not have mentioned this about 15 posts up?

I just got the builder and directors response. Had to ask

 

[westward10]

OP is fromLondon.have to make allowances. they don't know their arses from their elbows south of Birmingham. ( just look at that ridiculous round tent by the river and that Shard thing that looks like a RGB strip installed bya plumber).).

I'll ave u know I woz born n dragged up in the smoke.

 

[telectrix]

I'll ave u know I woz born n dragged up in the smoke.

we can't all be perfect. could make you an honorary Scouser. just make a £5K cheque out payable to:

Crisis Assistance Scouser Hostelries. Bit long winded?.

just use the initials C.A.S.H.

 

[ipf]

I'll ave u know I woz born n dragged up in the smoke.

Them southern jessies don't know true 'smoke'. ....cough!
Bleedin' Dick Van Dyke and his chimney sweeps....not to mention his accent.

 

[Ell4848]

So after all these posts and comments about plastering around the light, you now say they are actually going to take it down before they plaster.

Could you not have mentioned this about 15 posts up?

Hi All

Our electrician is installing a new fusebox just for the kitchen with new wiring
However he has made connections/boxes for our applicances to be hardwired so that it will all be connected to the new fusebox

My worry is, that we bought an expensive fridge cooker and washing machine and this may invalidate the warranty???

Does anyone know anything about this your advice would be appreciated

Thank you