Hairdressing salon. Electric shower unit 8.5kW over sink !!

[TCES]

I have been asked to quote for connecting up an 8.5kW electric shower unit in a hairdressing salon for use over a standard hairwashing sink. (The potential customer has already bought it). The salon is a former shop and open plan. Therefore no physical barrier is present between the sink & shower witha standard length flexi hose and socket outlets in the salon. There is no existing circuit for the shower so therefore I would have to install cable, RCD, isolator etc and be able to issue an installation certificate. Earthing and bonding are present and to current requirement of 7671.

I have to say that I am not at all comfortable with this, but this is commercial, not domestic and it is not a bathroom. I cannot find anything in BS7671 appropriate to the situation. I could RCD the other circuits in the location as an obvious precaution but I would be interested if anyone else has had a similar situation and any guidance regarding this generally. I could do with someone quoting chapter and verse !

Cheers

 

[Leckie]

Are there sockets right next to the sink?

 

[TCES]

I didn't see any next to it. What bothers me is the mains pressure and the long flexible hose and shower head so they may not need to be close to be vulnerable !

 

[Plonker 3]

Surely this comes under special locations as there is a shower invlolved, just because it is not in a cubicle or over bath doesn't mean it should be treated any differently.

I would draw up a contract with the customer saying they want it installing in said location with a list drawn up off possible risks in the future.

Even noting said contract in the departures section of the certificate.

Far from ideal but just about every other hairdressing salon in the country has this set up yet you never seem to hear of anyone being killed or electrocuted in them.

 

[Leckie]

I didn't see any next to it. What bothers me is the mains pressure and the long flexible hose and shower head so they may not need to be close to be vulnerable !

Well what about the zones? >0.6m from shower is zone 2. Sockets <3m from zone 1?

 

[yellowvanman]

The difference here is that in a shower the person taking the shower is usually not clothed, and dripping wet - not a good situation for touching electrics.

In the salon its not the same, Ok, someone's hair is wet but generally they won't be holding the shower head and the won't be wet head to foot.

Appreciate that sockets need to avoid being drenched, just like sockets in a kitchen, so obviously a safe distance and unlikely to be splashed. How is this different from a kitchen sink (say), theres plenty of kitchen taps now that are just as good as a shower head for splashing water around!

 

[telectrix]

i don't think that the normal rules for special locations ( bathrooms) apply in this case. reasoning being that the client and the hairdresser are not wet, standing in water, or in any way likely to be injured by the use of a shower used basically as a tap.common sense would prevail here.

 

[Guest55]

Surely this comes under special locations as there is a shower invlolved, just because it is not in a cubicle or over bath doesn't mean it should be treated any differently.

incorrect , the bs7671 definition of a bathroom ( and the classification of special location )
is relevent only to bath & shower basins , where the increased risk is from being stood wet & naked.
a sink with overshower is outside this catagory and is not bound by the min 3mtr skt rule nor the rcd protection of all circuits in the location.
which is why there are no zone 0 , 1 or 2 for sinks.
;-)

 

[Guest55]

Well what about the zones? >0.6m from shower is zone 2. Sockets <3m from zone 1?

they dont exist for a sink , with or without shower.

 

[telectrix]

biff, that's basically what i was trying to say, but in different words. bit tired, having been to b-i-l's for beers etc,.

 

[TCES]

I take your point, but do I regard this as a shower or a wash basin? There is no base or bath to stand in. This is the connundrum

 

[Guest55]

i never saw your post tel before writing mine , just co-incidence.

 

[Guest55]

I take your point, but do I regard this as a shower or a wash basin? There is no base or bath to stand in. This is the connundrum

well if you do class it as a special location then you are going to have alot of trouble making sure all sockets are 3 mtrs from all sinks in a hair salon.
just not feasible.

 

[snowhead]

but do I regard this as a shower

No, you don't see anyone standing barefoot and naked in the middle of a hairdressers in a tray having their hair washed.

or a wash basin?

It's a Backwash unit where the customer is seated with clothes and shoes on and their head is tipped backwards over a bowl with a neck rest on it.
WHITE HAIRDRESSER SALON BACKWASH SINK USED | eBay

This is the connundrum

Definitely NOT a connundrum, it's black and white, if it wasn't there would be a special location for Hairdressing Salons.


If you are fitting the shower you need to be aware of the regs to prevent backsiphoning from sink to shower hose.

 

[telectrix]

on the other hand, a few shocks would give rise to some funky hairdos, no extra charge.

 

[TCES]

Thanks to all for your replies. In the end I contacted NICEIC Technical who stated that I should regard it as a 'shower' even though it doesn't have a stand in tray and that the zones apply along with RCD protection on all circuits. No socket outlets within 3 metres of zone 1, spur units allowed outside zone 2 etc.

Went in to see the client to explain (hard work as he had no concept of complying with rules or regulations). Turned out he has an Ariston europrisma unit plumbed in, but with a leak. He thought fitting a shower would be cheaper that replacing the ariston ! Now he is replacing the Ariston.

All the Best

 

[telectrix]

Thanks to all for your replies. In the end I contacted NICEIC Technical who stated that I should regard it as a 'shower' even though it doesn't have a stand in tray and that the zones apply along with RCD protection on all circuits. No socket outlets within 3 metres of zone 1, spur units allowed outside zone 2 etc.

Went in to see the client to explain (hard work as he had no concept of complying with rules or regulations). Turned out he has an Ariston europrisma unit plumbed in, but with a leak. He thought fitting a shower would be cheaper that replacing the ariston ! Now he is replacing the Ariston.

All the Best

here we go again. niceic rewriting the rule book.

 

[Guest55]

Thanks to all for your replies. In the end I contacted NICEIC Technical who stated that I should regard it as a 'shower' even though it doesn't have a stand in tray and that the zones apply along with RCD protection on all circuits. No socket outlets within 3 metres of zone 1, spur units allowed outside zone 2 etc.

so the nic cant be arsed reading the regs book properly.
great.
i'd rather get tech advice from Asda.
;-)

 

[Silly Sausage]

Thanks to all for your replies. In the end I contacted NICEIC Technical who stated that I should regard it as a 'shower' even though it doesn't have a stand in tray and that the zones apply along with RCD protection on all circuits. No socket outlets within 3 metres of zone 1, spur units allowed outside zone 2 etc.

Wonder what Lord Cable would say on this subject? Should ask him at next week's ELEX.

Might have to get a job on the NICEIC Tech line, sounds like you just need to sit there and make things up! :smilielol5:

 

[Geoffsd]

Did they say where zone 2 starts?

When you step out of the sink?

 

[Brendan976]

If that is the best bit of advice the NIC can give then all hair salons should close, FFS are they putting electrical trainee on their technical support line now?

Ben